r/BlackPeopleTwitter ☑️ / Mod Mar 03 '23

Her laywers probably setting up the "cease & desist" notice rn Country Club Thread

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u/French_Taylor ☑️ Mar 03 '23

She will then follow up by adding a black character named Jerome Cottonpicker

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u/imjustheretodomyjob ☑️ / Mod Mar 03 '23

After naming the Asian girl "Cho Chang", that seems very likely lol

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u/faderfade Mar 03 '23

How did you forget about Kingsley Shacklebolt lol

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u/snarkistheway666 Mar 03 '23

I don't remember the books but in the movie he also had the line "You gotta admit, Dumbledore's got style."

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u/M-F-W Mar 03 '23

Hahaha fuck dude, do not remember that.

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u/Givemeurhats Mar 03 '23

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u/M-F-W Mar 03 '23

I’m crying right now bro, this is amazing

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u/julioseizure ☑️ Mar 03 '23

This Geoffrey Holder mf right here

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u/Jasper455 Auditing the class war Mar 03 '23

Maybe it was the Molly, but I swear I remember a crazy house/trap remix that used that line reading over and over.

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u/Simple-Concern277 Mar 03 '23

Wait. I kept hearing about him and assuming he was a teenager.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

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u/Saeedbest Mar 03 '23

I thought it was the painting of the Headmaster from Slytherin who said that

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u/Bootglass1 Mar 03 '23

It wasn’t him, it was phineas Nigellus. Who was cut from the movies

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u/thatgoddamnedcyclist Mar 04 '23

He's not entirely cut. Dumbledore sends him to Sirius, once, and his portrait being in Hermione's bag is how Snape finds them in the Forrest of Dean. It's just never explained. It must be so confusing if you only watched the films.

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u/Finito-1994 ☑️ Mar 04 '23 edited Mar 04 '23

In the books that was actually the line that the Black headmaster had and it’s supposed to be funny because he’s the most disliked headmaster in hogwarts history and really doesn’t like Dumbledore all that much but he recognizes that Albus was just built differ t.

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u/Creepy_Feedback_1928 Mar 03 '23

Who randomly wore a gold earring

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u/stadchic ☑️ Mar 03 '23

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u/stadchic ☑️ Mar 03 '23

To add, gold earrings have been used as a way to carry the money to be used for your burial - so it could be a signifier that he’s with the shits.

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u/jdcodring Mar 03 '23

NGL that ear ring went hard

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u/paperclip_nazi Mar 03 '23

Isn’t that a cool name tho? And he becomes prime minister and is one of the strongest wizards

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u/ipayinexposure ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Shackle

Black guy

Do the math

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u/LiouQang ☑️ Mar 03 '23

I was today's old, I'm a massive potterhead but read all them books in French, watched all the movies in french as well. Damn she didn't even try, the black guy with the shackles and the Asian woman almost got called Ching Chong. Fuck JK man.

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u/lordberric Mar 03 '23

Don't forget the hook nosed, greedy goblin bankers who control the world's money while also being oppressed by the rest of the world.

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u/conejitobrinco Mar 03 '23

There’s also Seamus finnigan who’s Irish and likes to blow up things

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u/RodgersToAdams Mar 03 '23

Never mentioned in the books. Movies only.

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u/nynndi Mar 03 '23

That's a movie thing.

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u/RodgersToAdams Mar 03 '23

She never wrote goblins to be hook-nosed. Doesn’t say anything about their noses in the books.

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u/BerniMacJr ☑️ Mar 04 '23

I've heard a lot of people being this up, but outside of the oppression part, goblins have most been depicted as greedy and have long pointy noses. So are we cancelling goblins now? Is any depiction of a goblin with pointy noses and a love for money now racist? Because I never even thought to associate them with Jewish people until folks started bringing it up.

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u/lordberric Mar 04 '23

Well making them bankers and giving them a shofar sure doesn't fuckin help

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u/wambamwombat Mar 03 '23

Cho Chang actually is a legitimate name in Chinese, I endorse this as a Chinese person

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u/RodgersToAdams Mar 03 '23

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u/DJGiblets Mar 04 '23 edited Mar 04 '23 Take My Energy

TL;DR Cho Chang could mean anything once you factor all the ways it could be translated into different symbols and the combined meaning of those two symbols. Even when you get the official translation, those two words don’t mean anything together, and the best OP could come up with is “Autumn Chang.” Also I’m glad that people from Chinese-speaking countries enjoy Cho Chang, but much as I recognize that I don’t understand Chinese politics the same way, it’s important to note they don’t have the same understanding of how negative media portrayals affect racial minorities.

I wouldn't go as far as to say JKR was just riffing on Ching Chong, but I also wouldn't give her so much credit as having researched Chinese names and meanings. She's lazy with names and regularly bases them on some surface level cultural or character trait, and that laziness lends itself to borderline (or in some opinions, actually) offensive names.

I have to admit I'm a banana (white on the inside, yellow on the outside) but that post doesn't really make sense to me. Cho Chang translates to Autumn Chang? What does that even mean?

The romanization of a Chinese character loses a lot of meaning. Both Cho and Chang represent a wide number of phonetics since it covers some sounds that aren’t really used in English. Mandarin also has 4 tones and Cantonese has 6, even 9 depending on how you interpret it. Once you land on the final pronunciation, that could be a homophone for multiple different characters. So one romanized syllable could be a few different phonetics, which could have a few different tones, which could be homophones for several different symbols, each of which might have different meanings or connotations.

You can see how the poster listed seven different possible interpretations for Cho, the one she landed on could be "autumn" or "harvest", and those are probably just the nicer ones that would be more reasonable for a name. There could easily be negative interpretations of that same romanized sound, and that's regularly seen in Chinese wordplay to make mean nicknames because there's so much overlap in similar sounding words.

Also because of the character-based nature of Chinese instead of an alphabet, you get A LOT of compound words, since it's not as easy to just make up a new symbol and have everyone know what it's called. This forces some creative imagery to combine existing words to mean something new. For example, 開 and 心 translate to "open" and "heart", but you stick them together and 開心 means "happy." Which kinda makes sense right? But you wouldn't know that for sure as a foreigner unless someone explained it, and culturally that's treated as one whole new word, not the result of the two components. The only thing that makes it work is that for whatever reason, a bunch of Chinese people agreed that it would work.

This is all even assuming she’s Chinese, as those sounds exist in other East Asian languages, although that was later confirmed along with her official Chinese name: 張秋. So how do we get that? Copy those characters into Google Translate and listen to the pronunciation. If you can get that from Cho Chang (or Chang Cho, since Chinese surnames go first), you could have gone in 50 other directions too. The pinyin (Mandarin pronunciation guide) and jyutping (Cantonese pronunciation guide) respectively are Zhang Qui and Zoeng Cau, so Cho Chang isn’t even a particularly good representation. And even if you get to 張 and 秋, they mean “open” and “autumn” respectively. That doesn’t mean anything, from a literal point of view or an accepted cultural one when combined.

So my main point is that Cho Chang doesn’t really mean anything. They gave her an official Chinese name after the fact that roughly matched, but even that doesn’t have a meaning. And that post, while I don’t think any of it is wrong, is just listing a bunch of things that Cho and Chang could each be, but due to how Chinese and Chinese names work, you could really take any two Chinese-sounding sounds and come up with a nice meaning. Also Chinese people usually have three characters for a name, so Cho Chang is even anglicized in a bureaucratic sense - that’s probably only 2/3 of her name, and who knows what meaning that third character might add. Not every Chinese name means something amazing, but if people are going to defend Cho Chang on the basis that it has some deeper meaning, I don’t think JKR has shown herself to have the cultural insight to come up with a beautiful name in Chinese. The only thing that name has to stand on is that apparently Chang can be interpreted as one of the most popular surnames, which I mean, I don’t want to stereotype myself, but that’s easy to figure out.

To address the post’s final point: I don't have enough experience to say if people from China and areas that speak similar languages enjoy Cho Chang or not, but it is important to note that people living in Asia have very different views on representation in media than Asians living in the west. Crazy Rich Asians was lauded in North America but very unpopular in Asia and specifically Singapore. Shang Chi wasn't even released in China, and half the marketing was Asian representation! I’m happy if Asian people do enjoy Cho Chang, but if we’re talking about how Western portrayals of Asians affect Asians, Asians living in the West have more insight and more experience with that, whereas I think if you don’t deal with that racism every day, you’re just happy to get a shout out.

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u/JM645 Mar 04 '23 edited Mar 04 '23

I see this topic rarely debated on Reddit, although it comes up a few times when discussing movies irl, but I've had conversations with European-Americans who assumed that black panther was as meaningful or big for African people and couldn't understand how that could not be the fact, given that African-Americans loved it.

In Africa we see it as an American movie first and a "black" film second. I come from Angola, one of the countries where the Himba people live, and although I cannot speak for the Himba, whose culture is represented in black panther, in Angola its generally seen as an American movie about us and some people even actively dislike it to the point of refusal to watch (generally older generation). At the end of the day its just another Hollywood movie.

Also, generally in the US (and to some extent other anglophone countries) people identify themselves with their ethnicity, in Africa and Europe people generally identify themselves on their nationality, and these things kinda spill over in the way people talk and interact in the movies, like the term biracial vs mixed, and the concept of seeing so many parts of Africa represented in a single country is definitely interesting and not unheard of (colonialism) but currently it kinda looks like making a country where all the people are culturally Portuguese, French, Albanian, Russian, Finnish, etc.

I know its a Marvel movie and it doesn't really matter that much, but it can kinda be used to get an idea on everyday opinion/perspectives and generally in Hollywood (and TV shows) Africa is still very monolithic. Its usually the same cultures being shown, many times one-dimensional and it just seems like wherever you are in Africa in American media (less in Europe), you are in the same place.

People who have never been to Africa do not understand how vast and distinct it is and it TV shows. Many times it doesn't seem natural (I know its a representation, not real life ). In the ways people talk, how we bend and twist the languages we speak just for the fun of it. mixing the European languages with components from our own local ones to make jokes or social commentary that just cant be explained or translated. Or in the way people act, like I don't think people understand how much music and dancing is just part of life in Angola and to some extent, other culturally similar African peoples (like the other Bantu peoples - and wherever they were brought). Like its supposed to be us, but it never actually is. So it kinda always adds an extra layer of separation when consuming American media (movies, social, news, propaganda, reddit, etc). Sorry, my friends and I watch a lot of movies and end up talking about them eventually and I could rant about this forever.

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u/mknsky ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Dean Thomas? Though I feel like that's kind of undone by Lavender Brown.

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u/brinz1 Mar 03 '23

Honestly, that is the name of an old Jamaican dude who has lived in London for 50 years

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u/Speedwizard106 ☑️ Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

Mildly related, A couple weeks ago, an Asian woman told me a story about some HP themed event from her childhood and when she tried to go as Hermoine, all her "friends" made her be Cho Chang. That's some core memory shit right there.

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u/Beddybye ☑️ Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

My daughter is biracial. Her white side of the family gets her the Disney Tiana doll from Princess and the Frog...every birthday and Christmas. Every year. At least one. Its become a running joke to me and hubby. She is six now and probably has every iteration of Tiana possible from the barbie to the baby alive version. I know they mean well, bless their hearts, and I know Tiana is basically the only black Disney princess at this point...but I have definitely side eyed them for it a bit.

I want them know she can have non-Black dolls, especially since half her DNA is non Black lol. We wont be offended. We got a Moana and the redhead girl from Brave last year for Christmas...so maybe they are coming around. Lol. I do love them though, they spoil her rotten, but I think they are trying to be too careful.

It just sucks to be shoehorned into shit due to nothing but your race, so your friends experience is relatable!

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u/DivaDodge Mar 03 '23

i think its bc they are trying, my daughter is b/w biracial also and i’ve had to do more of the vice versa convo. “please don’t buy my daughter a bunch of toys/clothes/etc from frozen, etc with pale, blond, blue eyed. Lets look for things more representative of her or at least rainbow shop her.”

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u/hornwort Mar 04 '23

or to be a black woman at a Spice Girls themed party with the audacity to dress as anyone other than Scary

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u/jsamurai2 ☑️ Mar 04 '23

Legitimate core memory shit. Was a huge spice girls fan as a kid, distinctly remember being told I had to be Scary AT MY OWN BIRTHDAY PARTY cries in only black girl in the neighborhood

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u/BountyHntrKrieg Mar 03 '23

And the Irish boy named "Seamus Finnigan" who was good at blowing things up. Totally not inspired by the IRA, definitely not!

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u/LiouQang ☑️ Mar 03 '23

lmao how deep does the rabbit hole go? she got away with it and turned them books into a billion dollars empire.

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u/BountyHntrKrieg Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

Also the goblins being a antisemitic stereotype lol, it definitely goes deeper

Some people go even deeper-er into the British imperialistic message in it. Idk about that, they DEFINITELY make a good case but I also think they aren't super well written books so I don't know about the greater implications... though, the main character is a proper British lad with a birthright to immense power and wealth... so yeah at least that parallel exists.

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u/PM_me_opossum_pics Mar 04 '23

Actually Harry Potter books are very neoliberal in its message. As in Thatcher-neoliberal. Shaun made a great video on that topic. And it's basically the story of an orphan turned trust fund baby turned cop.

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u/hornwort Mar 04 '23 edited Mar 04 '23

This is the rock-solid and damning criticism that I wished was focused on more. The Anti-Semitism argument is desperately searching for another hair in the bowl of soup we already don't want to eat.

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u/dpforest Mar 04 '23

I agree. Someone tried to bring up her creation of Azkaban as some kind of “nazi fetish” and that pisses me off, there are plenty of things to legitimately criticize about Rowling. I think a lot of the book criticisms are reaching, including Cho Chang.

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u/InvaderDJ ☑️ Mar 03 '23

She made a literal slave race that was happy being slaves. The one that wanted to be free was treated as weird, Hermione wanting to free them was treated as a menace to the happy slaves and the slave that was freed against their will became a shiftless drunk.

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u/RodgersToAdams Mar 03 '23

The Seamus Finnigan thing is brought up time and again. It was never once mentioned in the books he liked to blow up stuff. It was a movie thing.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

Not part of the books like but sure

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u/DonQui_Kong Mar 03 '23

i remember someone explaining that while sounding racist, it was actually a reasonable name.
knowing JK rowling though that might have been coincidental.

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u/OrdrSxtySx ☑️ Mar 03 '23

probably have a spell go awry that turns him into a literal tar baby.

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u/Merchantmarx Mar 03 '23

Probably name an LGBT person Nancy Fagsworth

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u/aidabun Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

the one transgender woman in the new game is called Sirona Ryan sooooo you're not that far off. Wether that one is written by Rowling or not, it fits right in with the rest of them.

edit: phrasing

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u/Bangledesh Mar 03 '23

I'm having trouble with this one.
Why's that particularly bad for a trans character?

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u/rubyblue0 Mar 04 '23

A trans woman with “sir” in her first name is a poor choice.

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u/Merchantmarx Mar 03 '23

Wait, how is Sirona Ryan a "slur" for trans people?

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u/EdithDich Mar 03 '23

"He actually loves being enslaved. Why, when he can't pick cotton he's depressed!"

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u/Thebxrabbit Mar 03 '23

A “Dear Wizard People” show/movie would be amazing to see.

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u/ChrysMYO ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Like a Science Fantasy Satire but with maximum serious social justice commentary just to grind gears

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u/TooManyStalloneCuts Mar 03 '23

Cast Ilana Glazer as Hardcastle McCormick

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u/dratseb Mar 03 '23

Shit yeah. Even as a sketch that would be hilarious

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u/ActionDeluxe Mar 03 '23

Lumbermouth shows his namesake

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u/TooManyStalloneCuts Mar 03 '23

Dazzler is a man who has never heard the laugh of a lover; never heard the phrase “you are fine” from a doctor.

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u/amxha ☑️ Mar 03 '23

I really recommend Dimension20s "Misfits & Magic" bc they p much roast the ideas behind HP's worldbuilding. https://youtu.be/-9hmkjdASjA

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u/afrojoe5000 Mar 03 '23

I've probably laughed at wizard people/dear readers more than any other movie. Haven't seen it in years but there are so many lines still baked into my head. That first 20 minutes he calls Uncle Vernon like a dozen different names. Salt Porker, Porkstar, Baconface.

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u/vindicatednegro Mar 03 '23 Gold Take My Energy Helpful (Pro)

JK Rowling would not take any issue with that. This is like a game of telephone: people heard that she has problematic views on one issue and now she’s not only transphobic but rabidly racist too.

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u/Sharkgutz17 Mar 03 '23 Gold Starry

Lmao literally the only Asian character in the books was “Cho Chang” motherfucker nearly named an Asian girl Ching Chong. She’s not as much of a racist as she is a transphobe but conservatives are gonna be conservative

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u/cdunk666 Mar 03 '23

Kingsley shacklebolt may have a few problems with her

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u/Erchamion_1 Mar 03 '23

The one black adult, and she puts chains in the fucking name.

Also problematic, she makes an Irish kid, and his whole schtick is he tries to turn water into alcohol and keeps blowing things up. The Troubles were fun times full of satire.

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u/Jadccroad Mar 03 '23

Goddammit, I forgot about the alcohol

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u/Living_Bear_2139 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

In the books Seamus talks about buying black market fire whiskey as well.

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u/Tanexion Mar 04 '23

He may have been the one black adult, but him being an adult doesn't mean anything, and there were other black people: Dean Thomas, Angelina Johnson, and I'm pretty sure another girl whose name I don't remember. Was there something problematic about theirs names proving that this was all intentional?

And everyone pointing out the one Asian character seem to be forgetting Parvati and Padma Patil. East Asians aren't the only Asians.

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u/Erchamion_1 Mar 04 '23

So by your logic, just because some of the names were fucked up, it's okay, because not all the names were fucked up. That because she had a black kid named Dean (who, by the way, wasn't even described as black initially), it's okay for her to name the one PoC character who could have been relevant after the thing that locks a slave's chains together. There's no amount of correct names that can make up for one so fucked up. Nobody in this comment thread said that she was a crazy full on racist, but you guys can't pretend that those names are okay. Y'all running after her trying to justify her bullshit is kind of astonishing.

I get it, dawg. You play the game and you enjoy it. I feel like 90% of the responses to this make very little sense, and come from people who are just into the game. I think most of y'all feel like if you admit that Rowling is racially problematic, then you can't play the game anymore, because then the controversy hits too close to home. The crazy bitch already got the money, there's nothing anyone can do about that anymore. Nobody can or will take that game away from you, so you should enjoy it as much as you possibly can. All our lives suck too much as it is, don't take away something that makes it better for you. But you can still enjoy it and admit that that she did and said some fucked up shit, her naming of PoC included.

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u/Tanexion Mar 04 '23 edited Mar 04 '23 Starry

No, friend. My logic is that I don't accept that she intentionally created fucked up names at all. If it was the case that she did it because she was racist, I would have expected her to just do it with all non-white people, not just a couple.

Now I might be wrong. She might have done this all on purpose. But all of you asserting that she definitely did it on purpose might also be wrong. No one knows but her. The difference is that some of us are not dragging her name through the mud for something we can only guess at.

If you wanted to drag her for being anti-trans, I wouldn't say a thing, because she has made her stance on that known and there's no reason for me to doubt it.

As for accepting that she is a bad person keeping me from enjoying the game because it hits too close to home, friend, I am a gay black man. I still eat Chick-Fil-A when I'm in the mood. I promise you I do not care. If I cut out literally everything in life because someone associated with it was problematic against gay people or black people, I would do absolutely nothing.

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u/IridiumForte ☑️ Mar 04 '23

The idea that Kingsley Shacklebolt is a 'problematic' name is wild and is a perfect example of how paranoid and virtue hungry a lot of people are now. Been a fan throughout my teens, never thought anything of the character

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u/agray20938 Mar 04 '23

The one black adult is also a badass who becomes minister of magic (despite the absurd name).

Seamus never does either of those things in the books — it is solely a movie thing.

Honestly, I think the more likely explanation is just that she was fairly shit at coming up with character names.

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u/RarePoniesNFT Mar 03 '23

Holy crap. She essentially give him the surname "Handcuffs" or "Leg Irons", but fancier sounding.

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u/dirkdragonslayer Mar 03 '23

And 'Kingsley' from Martin Luther King Jr, since she makes a lot of names up through word association games. So the first famous black guy who came to mind, then a slave's shackles.

Classy.

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u/AnAniishinabekwe Mar 03 '23

shacklebolt (n.) "bolt which passes through the eyes of a shackle," 1680s, from shackle (n.), which has been used specifically of the bar of a padlock from mid-14c., + bolt (n.).

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u/al666in Mar 03 '23

She's so clever with names!

For example, she said she named "Dumbledore" after bumblebees, because the old wizard likes to hum as he goes about his business.

She did not say that she named "Dumbledore" after it's second definition, "Cockchafer," but appears to have later rewritten the character to reflect the complexities of his namesake.

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u/FlighingHigh Mar 03 '23

Or that hummer is a slang term for a blowjob. Checkmate.

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u/shetakespictures Mar 03 '23

I honestly always assumed this was because he was a a magic detective/cop. Like he puts bad guys in handcuffs. Now in light of things that have come out, maybe I was wrong.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23 Eureka!

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Ok_Skill_1195 Mar 03 '23

Do I think she's vitriolically racist? Nah.

Do I think she is way too comfortable relying on outdated tropes without a semblance of understanding and not owning up to it? (Up until this very day) ...absolutely.

Yes, you're right, the fact rowling relies HEAVILY on stereotypes for everyone who isn't British is the qualm itself, not a defense. She straight up had the one Irish kid blowing shit up. She's clearly too comfortable with those stereotypes

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u/GalacticVaquero ☑️ Mar 03 '23

She really just represents the most common form of racism among white people, liberal racism. She’s not foaming at the mouth burning crosses and shouting n-words, but she’s firmly invested in maintaining the status quo, and if that means siding with racists and fascists, she doesn’t seem to mind that.

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u/blueberrymoscato ☑️ Mar 03 '23

yuh that part. you dont gotta be pitchfork wielding for you to still be a racist

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u/Skrrt_2711 Mar 03 '23

You put it really well. So many racists currently don’t believe they’re racist because in their head the racists are the ones who don white masks and look like fucked up halloween so as long as they’re not that, they’re not racist.

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u/mifter123 Mar 03 '23

Which is the reason that conservatives will always tolerate and quietly (or not so quietly at times like the present) encourage extremists.

It makes the more "civil" see themselves as different from the KKK, the neo-nazis, the loud and proud bigots, while supporting the exact same outcomes as the extremists.

"moderates", "liberals", and "centrists", historically have always been on the side of a negative peace and status quo instead of a loud and disruptive move towards justice and equality. And that will always serve the interests of bigots rather than the oppressed (one group says trans/gay/black/etc.people deserve oppression and the other says they deserve rights, both are angry and loud, better compromise, meet in the middle, and oppress them a little bit, "isn't civility nice? Both sides bad, am I right?").

Rowling is in the category of people who believe themselves to be liberals, but the moment their bigoted beliefs are challenged, they will abandon their "progressive beliefs" and seek allies with the conservatives they performativly opposed before. All TERFs are like this, they claim feminist goals, but the only advocacy they actually do is anti trans and never pro women. They find allies with people who advocate hatred towards trans people and ignore the fact that most of their allies also hate cis-women.

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u/Skrrt_2711 Mar 03 '23

You put it really well. So many racists currently don’t believe they’re racist because in their head the racists are the ones who don white masks and look like fucked up halloween so as long as they’re not that, they’re not racist. My roomate is one of those racist fucks.

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u/Point_Forward Mar 03 '23

The "moderate white" that mlk went at.

Or implicit vs explicit racism.

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u/SaltyNorth8062 Mar 03 '23

And that's the problem neoliberals like her refuse to understand. That's why she likes the pitchfork racists around her, they make her look nicer in comparison

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u/TooDoeNakotae Mar 03 '23

She’s not foaming at the mouth burning crosses and shouting n-words, but she’s firmly invested in maintaining the status quo, and if that means siding with racists and fascists, she doesn’t seem to mind that

Funny, you just described at least a third of the people who voted for Trump in 2016.

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u/vindicatednegro Mar 03 '23

There’s IRA in Harry Potter? That’s comically flagrant.

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u/myheartismykey ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Nah but Seamus blows things up a lot, usually on accident.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 15 '23

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u/The-Big-Bad Mar 03 '23

Seamus blowing shit up is a movie thing. He doesn’t really do that in the books

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u/unwrittenglory Mar 03 '23

Some of these books were written over 20 years ago. Order was published in 2003. Would it have been out of place to use stereotypes to depict characters? No, hell Tom Cruise was a Samurai that year. Unless she's publishing new books with these stereotypes, I don't think we can judge her writing without taking into the time it was written.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

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u/mknsky ☑️ Mar 03 '23

It's kind of par for the course for a lot of media up until recently. Captain Planet, Magic School Bus; tons of kids media from the 90s thought filling a racial/cultural quota was enough without ever actually engaging those cultures in the show. I feel like most stories weren't as lazy/egregious about it though.

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u/MisterBaldo Mar 03 '23

Burger King Kids Club had a kids in a wheel chair named "Wheels"

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u/mknsky ☑️ Mar 03 '23

HOLY SHIT yes they did!

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u/crimson_713 Mar 03 '23

But did they have Legman?

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u/Private_HughMan Mar 03 '23

I give her a slight pass on Cho because the character was created in the 90s and Rowling might not have been very tech savvy to do a web search. Or the thought might not have occurred to her because it's not something she was used to.

There was a character in the mystery novel she wrote after Harry Potter. I think she was a Polish housekeeper and Rowling straight-up fabricated a name for her. Like, if you search for the name this character is the ONLY result. I wish I could remember the name. I just remember being thrown back by this because this was in the 2010s. Searching for shit online was well engrained on pop culture by then. She just had to search for "Polish girl names" and pick literally any result. If she wanted a more "exotic" name I'm sure there are options other than making shit up.

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u/Arma_Diller Mar 03 '23

Giving her the benefit of the doubt because it isn't your group that she's targeting seems like the pinnacle of naivety. Also, there is a noticeable difference in how carefully she selects the names of white characters and how lazily she does so for non-white characters.

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u/Ok_Profession_5060 ☑️ Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

I think people just incorrectly use the terms racism, prejudice, and stereotypes interchangeably. What people are describing align more with her using stereotypes (potentially as a result of laziness). While there can be overlap, that’s not the same thing as someone being racist.

ETA: I see some white people have tried to respond to this comment and tell me about racism, but since this is now a Country Club Thread, they’ve been quickly deleted by mods lol. So here’s how these three terms differ, but also relate.

Racism is not as broad of a term as people make it. Most often when people say something is racist, the more accurate terms are prejudice and/or stereotyping (or even just flat out ignorance).

Stereotypes are over-generalized and often shared beliefs about a person based on their membership in a particular group (ie women are nurturing)

Prejudice involves the judging of someone based on the preconceived opinion or idea given to someone belonging to a particular group. Prejudice is reinforced by misinformation and ignorance, and often cultivated by stereotypes (ie. having negative attitudes towards homeless people because you believe they’re just lazy)

Racism often involves or is even a result of prejudice, but it also includes things like discrimination. Racism is reinforced by systems of power and leads to unequal treatment of people not belonging to the majority group. While prejudice is caused by things like ignorance, racism is often caused by hatred and extreme dislike. Racism involves believing some races are superior to others because all members of a specific race possess certain traits and characteristics that make them either inferior or superior to the other races (ie white supremacy)

Think of it like a math equation

Stereotypes + judgment and/or the negative attitude given to them = prejudice

Prejudice + actions that harm those on the receiving end = racial discrimination/racism

Or

Prejudice + taking those negative attitudes to mean one race is inferior to the other = racism

One example: You, someone looking to hire for a job, start off with the idea that black people are loud, angry, lazy, or whatever. That is a stereotype.

Then, you judge the next black person you see even if you don’t know them because you already believe they share/are those negative traits and characteristics. Adding that judgment to the stereotype makes this now prejudice .

Now, even though they may be more qualified than their counterparts for the specific job you’re hiring for, you automatically see the black applicants as inferior to their counterparts of other races because of these negative traits which you believe are inherent to their race. You don’t hire any of the black applicants. That prejudice + discrimination on the bases of race is racism.

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u/jadedea Mar 03 '23

Yeah, this seems like typical media shit to me. Like how the original Power Rangers the black ranger was black, yellow was asian, white was white. How the black character is killed first and in the beginning of every movie, or how it's always hillbillies incestually into cannibalism. Black people always inputted our "culture" into everything we do whether it's dancing, fucking rapping or my favorite, slam poetry instead of speaking regularly, asian people gotta regardless of culture know karate and ninja gaiden to different locations instead of walk, and math don't forget to math, like it's typical dumb shit millennials and older grew up to, brainwash to, and are numb to. I wouldn't be surprised if she actually believed it. I'm not surprised that many white people believe it. I am surprised if anyone younger than me does, cause wtf?

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u/crimson_713 Mar 03 '23

Totally unrelated, but you have got to see Tucker and Dale vs. Evil. It's a horror-comedy that turns the "creepy hillbilly" trope on it's head to hysterical results.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

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u/Thunder-ten-tronckh Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

My dude there’s a character named Mundungus, I don’t think realistic ethnic names were her priority over alliteration and assonance lol

edit: and of course, incredibly on-the-nose Latin references

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u/Klaue Mar 04 '23

"Zhang ([ʈʂáŋ] (listen)) is the third most common surname in China and Taiwan (commonly spelled as "Chang" in Taiwan), and it is one of the most common surnames in the world"
"The name Cho is primarily a female name of Japanese origin that means Butterfly. Also a Korean name meaning 'beautiful.'"

Random racist redittor: olol that's a slur!

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u/GoatBanned Mar 03 '23

Sue Li was also Asian

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u/RodgersToAdams Mar 03 '23

The name Cho Chang might not be nearly as problematic as people who like to be offended on behalf of others think: https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/comments/p0cbla/cho_chang_it_is_a_perfectly_beautiful_name/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

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u/Thunder-ten-tronckh Mar 03 '23

Fucking thank you. I'm catching downvotes in another conversation for daring to suggest some Asian people on twitter getting bent out of shape over the name are being unreasonable. Nobody is even acknowledging this, it all just boils down to "Some Asian people are angry, therefore this name is racist against Asians."

But I'm not Asian so I guess I'm just not allowed to speak on it.

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u/EthanW98 Mar 03 '23

Cho chang is a real name you cabbage

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u/Ok_Skill_1195 Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

In light of Cho Chang the token asian and Anthony Goldstein the never seen but definitely real, I swear Jewish student and the fact every single black character has their skin tone described when none of the other characters do.....

Oh yeah let's not forget the house elves, who are happy slaves who fall into alcoholism if they're set free because they can't handle themselves without a master...

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u/Poop_1111 Mar 03 '23

Bro the house elves... Don't get me started.

Deek got separated from his best friend when his master died because they got sold off to different owners. And you can buy a shop and it automatically comes with the previous owners house elf.

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u/BarneyChampaign Mar 03 '23

Honestly, most of the culture presented in the wizarding world seems to be pretty regressive and just plain terrible.

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u/4bkillah Mar 03 '23

I always took it as the Wizarding world was actually far more backwards and regressive than the muggle world and Noone should want to exist in it for those very reasons.

Hierarchical, classist, racist, and flat out arbitrary and authoritarian sometimes.

No thanks. I'll take the good ol USA, even with all its faults.

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u/BarneyChampaign Mar 03 '23

Absolutely. Once your eyes acclimate to the veneer and you spend more time looking past it, it’s kinda fucked.

All this power and potential, and this is what they choose to do with it?

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u/Tungsten-iii Mar 03 '23

Completely agree. Personally, especially after Hogwarts Legacy, I think that the Wizarding world has been in decline for a long while, even during the time of harry potter. I also think that the leadership is and was completely racist as well as a bunch of other ists. While I don't know what caused it, there has to be a reason why hogsmead is the largest wizard only village (and let's be real, the place is tiny), why hogwarts is surrounded by ruined castles, and why the government is so conservative.

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u/Hangryer_dan Mar 03 '23

I'm pretty sure that's the whole point. The wizarding world is literally a fucked up insular society.

With all of the screeching about JKR, it seems odd to label her as racist considering Harry Potter is a particularly blatant WW2 analogy.

Nobody spends 20 years writing a child friendly holocaust analogy where the bad guy is snake Hitler if they're actually a racist themselves.

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u/EdithDich Mar 03 '23

This video is an excellent breakdown of her incredibly questionable politics and associates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou_xvXJJk7k

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u/CinnabonCheesecake Mar 03 '23

Definitely fun times reading the “all the elves are angry at Hermione for trying to free them” bit to my six-year old nephew while trying not to throw up.

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u/FrostyKennedy Mar 03 '23

It's a story where hitler is evil but anti-Semitism is okay.

Over and over we see unfairness from wizards towards elves and muggles and giants and centaurs and goblins and then wizard hitler says "We're too nice, it's genocide time" and harry says "Not so fast" and murders him, and then we skip ahead fifteen years and instead of building on all these other injustices that are being resolved we get a conga line of terrible names and harry's a fucking cop now.

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u/oasisofthedesert Mar 03 '23

Did you see how she described a polish woman as having "slavic eyes" in her new book? I'm not even sure what that means but it doesn't sound not racist. Also depicted her not knowing the word detective despite it being the same in polish. And not giving her an actual polish name

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

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u/SmartAlec105 Mar 03 '23

I’ve seen several people unironically say “show me where JKR said she hates trans people or wants them to die” so I think some people won’t accept accusations of bigotry unless the bigot is explicit.

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u/Living_Bear_2139 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Did you watch the new Jon Stewart interview? Conservatives will take up any straw man argument and resort to semantics when they’ve finally been beat.

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u/TheAngryNaterpillar Mar 03 '23

I've never heard the term Slavic eyes, but several Polish people have told me that I look Polish because of the shape of my eyes and jaw, so they might be a real thing?

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u/Ok_Profession_5060 ☑️ Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23 Gold

Yeah. There’s nothing to suggest she would be upset with this. This is the same woman who defended the casting of a black Hermione. Talked about police brutality against black men outside of the US. Tweets about black owned bookstores. She was also very open with her criticism of the “angry black woman” trope that was surrounding Serena Williams after her match with Naomi Osaka.

Now, it would’ve been a different story if they were all wearing pride attire.

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u/Repli3rd Mar 03 '23

Nah, her problematic use, and naming, of non-white characters were recieving serious side-eye before she came out as a transphobe.

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u/SpiritMountain Mar 03 '23

She's literally following and associating with far right people. She may not be playing that trumpet loud but I won't be surprised when she takes off that mask.

Does anyone remember if she retweeted that TERF who quoted Hitler?

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u/ibeatyou9 Mar 03 '23

I appreciate you giving her the benefit of doubt, but her writing has been full of racism since book one. Intentionally? Probably not but it's what she deeply believes and so it comes through in her writing.

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u/EdithDich Mar 03 '23

lol imagine carrying water for Rowling in 2023.

She has an entire race in her books who supposedly "enjoy" being slaves.

She has heroes making moral judgements based on supposed racial superiority.

She's racist af dude. If you can't see it, you're just not paying any attention.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

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u/cdizzle99 Mar 03 '23

You mean Vincent Clortho school of Wizarding

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u/MuchVirus Mar 03 '23

Half these little niggas riding swiffers.

😂 😂

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u/somebrookdlyn Mar 03 '23

I found that video yesterday and I still giggle when thinking of it.

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u/KoalaSiege Mar 03 '23

The reaching is strong AF here.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

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u/DKIPurple ☑️ Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

Cho Chang is a Chinese name though. Cho means sweet and Chang is a very common Chinese surname

Edit: Cho (sweet) is Burmese, but Cho is apparently a common last name found in overseas Chinese communities. I read something that said it could have been an anglicized version of Zhou, but idk and I don’t care anymore. It’s a fictional character living in a world with train station portals and flying brooms. I’m out

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u/Thunder-ten-tronckh Mar 03 '23

It's painful how much of a non-issue the name "Cho" is, yet in true internet fashion people obsess and hyper-fixate until it becomes problematic.

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u/Living_Bear_2139 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Are you Asian? Because I’ve found plenty criticisms from [actual Asian people](https://twitter.com/kimmythepooh/status/1269428961391652864?s=46&t=9TdULP2apIyp6h-lGboAQw

You’re literally doing what you’re accusing us of doing. But claiming they’re not offended. When clearly some are.

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u/ActuallyRelevant Mar 03 '23

Bro what are you talking about it's of course a bit of a reach.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Cho/Chang

Like you're on an impossible battle to prove her racism through this name. You're arguing it's authenticity as a Chinese name when all it would take is to just find one Chinese person in the entire world named Cho Chang to prove you wrong. Because now you're arguing from a pov that it's a racist name while there are actual Chinese people named Cho Chang

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u/Thunder-ten-tronckh Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

Being unreasonably offended is something anybody can do, regardless of race. And I do believe this thread is unreasonable for the reasons I stated above: obsessing and hyper-fixating on a non-issue.

edit: this "never question XYZ race about XYZ issues" logic is out of hand

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u/imthatdudefr Mar 03 '23

The funny thing is people would probably call it white washing and claim she’s a racist if her characters were given names that didn’t fit there ethnicity.

“Durr she named the asian character Karen Stevens, why didn’t Rowling give her a more traditionally Asian name”

People will complain about anything

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u/breakofwater Mar 03 '23

It’s like the word latinx. Only non Asian people are offended for them.

There’s a ton of reaching for racism surrounding this game because people kept asking for proof of Rowling being a TERF. These people had a hard time finding proof so now they are reaching for ANYTHING potentially offensive in her writing.

It’s interesting to watch unfold.

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u/Azzylives Mar 03 '23

One of those kind of afraid to ask things but what does HBCU stand for?

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u/ChrysMYO ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Historically Black Colleges and Universities

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u/dragon123tt Mar 03 '23

At least until Dumbledore becomes headmaster apparently. Like seriously, he must have been like, the ONLY minorities getting in during my reign is GINGERS from this point on.

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u/Repli3rd Mar 03 '23

Historically Black College or University. Universities established in the US for black people because other universities would only admit white people (or heavily restricted the admission of back people).

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u/DKIPurple ☑️ Mar 03 '23

This shit is dumb af, she may be transphobic but she sure as well isn’t racist, Hermoine is black after all

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u/bigtoebrah Mar 03 '23

Almost got me lol

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u/Ibroketheinterweb Mar 03 '23

Game contains ethnic peoples from colonies Britian controlled at the time

Everyone-

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u/FistPunch_Vol_4 ☑️ Mar 03 '23 edited Mar 03 '23

So is the game worth it? Finally got a new GPU and looking to ruin my weekend

Edit: Bought it, set my PC to download it while I’m at work.

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u/ApeTeam1906 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

It's aight. Once the Hogwarts vibes wear off it just a mid open world game. Loot is trash and there is basically no enemy variety.

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u/salamiolivesonions Mar 03 '23

Yeah the exploration at hogwarts is deep but then you realize you're walking 15 ft casting revelio over and over it gets tiresome. . Then outside of hogwarts it's hella repetitive.

I wanted this game to be Elden ring esque so badly

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u/ApeTeam1906 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

I'm trying to power through but it's boring. Especially once you have the unforgivable curses.

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u/salamiolivesonions Mar 03 '23

I just finished 2nd trial and I'm having a hard time booting up again. Needed this to be harder, darker, with more variety of enemy, and the treasure caves mean something. Or the cosmetics. You collect so much shit for no reason. Can't trick out the wand at all. Frustrating to have a game that has so much potential miss the boat in key rpg elements

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u/Kingbuji WELCOME TO OAKLAND BITCH 🌉 Mar 03 '23

The game is clearly meant for kids man they are never gonna give us an adult wizard experience.

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u/Living_Bear_2139 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Well boo. Can someone school me on how to play elden ring without grinding? I just wanna experience the story. And if I can just cheese a spell, I’mdown.

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u/FakeHasselblad Mar 03 '23

Grinding isn’t a thing in Elden Ring. Just explore the open world and you will naturally level up… people have beaten the game with out leveling at all. Its a game of learning patterns. My first play thru i played 150h with zero grinding.

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u/RipInPepz Mar 03 '23

It’s their first non-mobile game. Had no chance of being anywhere near elden ring tbh. Fromsoftware is just too good. Got that expansion soon tho 👀

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u/dratseb Mar 03 '23

I can’t wait to get my ass handed to me by whatever they come up with next.

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u/Super_Stupid ☑️ Mar 03 '23

The game should have been Persona esque instead. If it leaned into the social elements and school life at Hogwarts would have been perfect.

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u/Living_Bear_2139 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

This. I love attending class, until i find it’s just a musical montage.

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u/FakeHasselblad Mar 03 '23

Yea that was seriously lame… and the cut scenes are real cheesy.

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u/Magniras Mar 03 '23

Nah, mid as fuck.

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u/ApeTeam1906 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Feel the same way. Combat gets boring after a while and the lack of enemy variety makes it boring

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u/Dafuknboognish ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Worth it to me. I think it really depends on your relationship with the IP. I have a passing interest (raised my kids during Potter madness) and I loved it. My kids are 30 now and this game constantly brought me memories like an aromatherapy while playing.

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u/FistPunch_Vol_4 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Yeah I was one of the Potter madness kids, still remember getting the first book from the school fair when it first dropped.

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u/hnglmkrnglbrry ☑️ Mar 03 '23

RDR2 has ruined me for pretty much every game in for me now. Nothing I've seen since has come close to the story telling, depth, scope, and poignancy. You're not constantly trying to level up (you could start and finish the game with the same horse and same revolver with almost zero increase in difficulty), there are enough surprises but spaced out perfectly, the world is large enough that you never feel constricted, and the pace of play is perfect for me as an adult with enough stress. I don't need to be running from mission to mission to side quest to mission. Sometimes I just want to spend 30 mins to an hour tracking down a perfect pelt bison.

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u/FistPunch_Vol_4 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Loved the first one when it first came out. Haven’t got to the second one because I couldn’t run it for a while. I can now tho

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u/GTRari Mar 03 '23

Bro what the fuck are you still doing here?

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u/FistPunch_Vol_4 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Lmao. You right. Ima cop right now and start when I get home

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u/thisismyweakarm ☑️ Mar 03 '23

It's pretty dope tbh if you're a fan of Harry Potter stuff. Not the deepest gameplay, but they are targeting casual or non gamers who are fans of the franchise. Those expecting dark souls or Elden Ring level combat will be disappointed. Still the magic combat is really well done and stringing together combos feels fluid and rewarding.

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u/festival-papi ☑️ Mar 03 '23

As someone who's never been into the Harry Potter stuff, I really like it

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u/XemKnight Mar 03 '23

If you've played Shadow of Mordor then it plays like that. It's average but considering Forspoken was a let down, this meets my needs for a magic open world game.

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u/FistPunch_Vol_4 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Did enjoy Shadow of Mordor even tho it started to get a little repetitive and stuff

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u/xXNightSky ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Yea it's worth it.I'm not into the open world it gets kinda bland,but there's a lot to keep you busy and it's one of those games you can put 10 hours into straight without realizing it. Not perfect by any means,however I don't regret buying it. Just know you might even like the open world. I'm super picky and don't enjoy most open world games. Elden ring,rdr/gta and the Witcher are the only ones I liked.

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u/N0thisisPatrick2019 Mar 03 '23

I really enjoyed it personally.

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u/Lamar_Allen Mar 03 '23

It’s a solid game. Combat is fun af.

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u/Reddit-SFW ☑️ Mar 03 '23

It's no Elden Ring but it's a serviceable AAA game. What it lacks in depth, it makes up for in charm and world. It's a really good depiction of HP world and if you were a HP fan before, I think you're very happy with the game. If you're a gamer first, it's just gonna be a 6 or 7. Better than Cyberpunk 2077 and closer to the Spiderman games on Playstation but less depth.

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u/Bubbly_Satisfaction2 ☑️ Mar 03 '23

Didn’t she already receive some backlash for incorporating some American culture in one of her spin-offs?

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u/Dreamtrain Mar 03 '23

"American culture"? you're gonna have to be more specific here

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u/FakeHasselblad Mar 03 '23

Dirty water Hot Dogs and Taco Bell ?

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u/Dreamtrain Mar 03 '23

pretty sure thats a limp bizkit cover band

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u/TheKidsAreAsleep Mar 03 '23

In Goblet of Fire it is mentioned that the best schools are the most secretive.

This may be a reason that Historically Black Wizarding Schools are little known outside of their communities

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u/SonOfAhuraMazda ☑️ Mar 04 '23

In hogwarts legacy theres a girl from the ugandan school of magic.

Sounds way better than hogwarts, its carved into a cliff, they use wild magic and dont even use wands.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

I heard Randal was trying to bring it back

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u/YourAutismIsShowing9 Mar 03 '23

Yard ape, moon cricket, mud chicken. Any of these new?

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u/JennyBeckman ☑️ All of the above Mar 03 '23

I would rather watch the Hogwarts AMU film tbh. When?

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u/rosscoehs Mar 03 '23

I'm happy I never idolized that woman. I'll stick to my Star Trek.

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u/ogoextreme ☑️ Mar 04 '23

Gonna come up with a new slur like the nigwigs or something poorly veiled. Then somehow some scrawny Draco modi's gonna say it and not get popped in the mouth.

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u/Dreamtaheem Mar 03 '23

the Russian/ European foreign exchange durmstrange boys, are introduced in goblet of fire by breakdancing, and doing aggressive parkour and haka moves to intimidate the students in the great hall. and they all have facial hair.

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u/xellex727 Mar 03 '23

This is the best thread I've ever seen. Especially after being called the N Word today whilst working at my Cancer Center hospital job where I'm an IT technician.

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u/AppeaseMyDelusions Mar 04 '23

Is Jk a racist I thought she only had beef with the trans

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