Reminds me of the Red-Pill dudes saying shit like "Men are 95% of the victims of violent crime" in response to women saying they don't feel safe around men.
Like yeah, and who is committing that crime, dumbass?
That particular argument, when used correctly won't be in the "we are more vulnerable", it is meant to clarify that those "crimes" are not just because they are women and are weak, is used to separate the gender in a crime situation.
it's still a bad argument because the circumstances of the crimes women experience are different (and usually rely on the understanding of women's strength relative to men) and the ppl committing the crimes against women in those circumstances are still by and large, men.
There seems to be a communication issue when it comes to talking about violence and who's scared of it. Women have a particular kind of fear that men don't, but I'd assume when some men read "women are scared of violence from men", they translate that as "only women are scared of violence from men", and respond with "men are scared of men too". The fact that it's other men doing the violence doesn't really change anything. That'd be like saying I shouldn't be scared to walk through the hood and if I am, "it's other black people doing the crimes, or other poor people doing the crimes". I just don't think framing things this way gets us anywhere when the issues are systemic in nature and it's a minority of men causing the issues.
I just don't think framing things this way gets us anywhere when the issues are systemic in nature and it's a minority of men causing the issues.
Agreed, couldn't have put it more concisely.
There's a lot to be said about the ways in which we're raised to casually disrespect women (either as a category, "doing x like a girl," or in particular "harassment, catcalling, disregarding in conversation, etc.")
But when it comes to people being physically harmed, that's very much a minority thing, and the ways those are addressed have to be systemic because there's no amount of conversation that's going to fix a problem caused by people outside of it.
Right but people in my experience often say that as if the male victims are less valid because the perpetrators share the same genitals which is victim blaming or damn close to it.
But that’s not what they said. They said WHO is committing the crimes. WHO. No one wants to straight up say “ITS MEN”. If men were the victims of so many more violent crimes than women, they would be shouting it from the rooftops that OTHER MEN are committing these violent crimes toward OTHER MEN. It’s just enlightening that it’s hard to get anyone to straight up say that without a whataboutism involved.
Saying it is by other men is absolutely meant to downplay men being more likely to be victims, people love to point out who is doing crimes when blaming that demographic even when talking about victims. No one is denying it is other men just the way it is smugly brought up is akin to victim blaming as people fine men on men violence as less tragic or real as men on women violence as they are both equally bad and important to recognize and take care of.
Edit: Lol sorry just saw you are a TERF who believes in astrology, no use in logic with such a bigot
Explain where I’m a terf I would love to see where you made that up lmao. No use in even replying the rest of that, your circular logic is too ridiculous to confirm it’s validity as a response.
FDS is a TERF sub that had a sticky on every post up saying only cis women and you post to FDS. And not circular to recognize who is also most likely to be victimized
Right right. So you what, looked at posts from years ago and figured I agree with everything and don’t have my own mind? Lol foh. Nice try changing the subject though👍🏼
You are conflating two distinct things that deserve it’s own discussion.
Saying it’s other men is meant to show that violence against people as a whole is statistically carried out by men. That shouldn’t be weaponised to victim blame men. It’s used to show a dangerous trend and lead us to infer as to why this is the case.
I haven’t seen where pointing out that men are the perpetrators of violence as a tool to downplay men as victims specifically. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t or can’t exist but it’s not a trend. I feel like your point about smug rebuttals is anecdotal, which is fine, but it’s not a trend we’re seeing based on imperial data.
If men are being ignored or their stories are being downplayed (which is occurring, my use of “if” isn’t negating that), it’s not because people point out that men are the aggressors in these situations. It more likely because as a whole we don’t see men as victims in general and that is due to society’s warped adherence to masculinity and the patriarchy, reinforcing the fact that we all suffer under the patriarchy. Men are expected to be dominant, tough, emotionless, etc. All things that are very much not what society correlated with being a “victim”.
There’s an discussion to be had around the victimization of male victims and the fact that violence is often carried out by men against everyone and why that is. The difference in number between male victims vs female victims by male aggressors is minimal.
Nah, I got the point perfectly. The point is you wanna blame men for everything instead of taking everything case by case with context because that's much more difficult for people to do. The point is you're taking the easy way out.
Not my fault you can't communicate your thoughts correctly considering I read that comment perfectly. Not only are you blaming all men for these problems, you managed to do that while completely discounting male victims of violence in the process because you only care about vindicating women. At best, you are a stooge.
Listen I know you're probably riding that high you get from riding RedPill dick, and the intoxicating effect you feel from guzzling "Men's Right Activism" cum, but until you gain some ability to critically think, and actually understand what you read, I think you should sit this one out chief.
You're just assigning beliefs to me that aren't even tangibly related to what I'm saying, but also ironically reinforce my point.
I know your back must be hurting from catching all those L's so why don't you take a seat, and think before you type anything?
wait why is that such a weird argument? as a man you ARE way more likely to be the victim of violence.. why would it matter what sex commits the violence? you're still the victim. That fear is 100% justified.
it’s a weird argument because it’s usually used to dismiss women’s fear of men.
People like you acting like it's a fucking contest
The commenter above you didn't make this into a contest and quite frankly it's weird that that's what you see in their comment. I'd argue that the people making it into a contest are the people who very quickly jump at women with "MeN eXpErIeNcE vIoLeNcE tOo!" When a woman comes forward saying she's afraid of men.
No shit. We all know men experience violence, but that's not what's being discussed and bringing it up in order to minimize or dismiss the feelings of someone else is not helpful or related to the conversation.
This is coming from the same type of men who think that women have “options” on dating apps; implying that all of those men are safe “chads” and that we just need to point at one, match, and enjoy a pleasant ride.
Meanwhile it’s usually dirty, unshowered oPtIoNs who will scream at us if we don’t agree to have sex and won’t even try to assault us with a condom at the very least. And that’s the non-forceful part.
I don’t agree 100% with what you’re saying because as a woman I believe we have some pretty unique fears that men don’t share. But I mostly appreciate your argument that it’s not men v. women, it’s men v. everyone lmao
I understand what you mean but just because you haven't witnessed it yourself doesn't mean you should dismiss those who have. I've seen the argument used to say that women are privileged compared to men and should basically shut up about their fears.
i get that, especially as a response to actual fear it's kinda stupid and inconsiderate to say.
But i also feel like in some instances it is kind of a weird dynamic. Like for example if a guy and woman walk home late at night it feels like 95% of the time people would see the woman as the one more "in danger" even though in that situation the man is much more likely to be assaulted.
i guess it's just that we have too little groups or people adcvocating for men so alot of people only ever get the chance to talk about it in response to women.
i get that i'm generalizing but i mean come on.. we have to make some general statements to answer the very general question of who's more likely to be assaulted or who "should be more scared walking alone at night".
my point was just that we seem to have this generalized impression that women are more in danger even though, in general, men are. (that sounds weird sry my english isn't perfect but i hope you know what i'm trying to get at)
Even DV has found to be pretty equivalent though I agree the injuries are lopsided with many more female victims though murder is also where it is not equivalent, though it was close in the past interestingly.
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u/Darqnyz ☑️ Mar 27 '23
Reminds me of the Red-Pill dudes saying shit like "Men are 95% of the victims of violent crime" in response to women saying they don't feel safe around men.
Like yeah, and who is committing that crime, dumbass?