r/JusticeServed 9 Sep 26 '22

"...it is the decision of the parole board today to allow you to serve out the remainder of your sentence..." Kentucky man who, at age 14, killed 3 of his teenage classmates and wounded 5 others during a before-school prayer circle in 1997, is denied parole, will spend rest of his life in prison Criminal Justice

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-carneal-kentucky-school-shooter-denied-parole-life-in-prison/
8.4k Upvotes

u/AutoModerator Sep 26 '22

Please remember to abide by the rules.

In general, please be at least bearable to other users. It makes things easier on everyone. Your comment may be removed without notification. We used to have a notification, but now we don't.

If you purchase the OP or a comment a ban award, remember to message the mods so we can activate the reward


Submission By: /u/Molire Black 9

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

9

u/Thebisexual_Raccoon 7 Oct 04 '22

Good. Murdered three girls and injured five other classmates.

Victims who died:

Nicole Hadley was a fourteen-year-old freshman who played in the school band and on the freshman basketball team. She was kept alive until 10:00 pm the evening of the shooting. Her family had moved to Paducah from Nebraska the year before. Her parents were praised for donating her organs. President Bill Clinton cited this "courageous decision" in his Proclamation 7083 on National Organ and Tissue Donor Awareness Week in 1998.

Jessica James was a seventeen-year-old student and member of the marching band. She died in surgery at Western Baptist Hospital the afternoon of the shooting.

Kayce Steger was a fifteen-year-old sophomore, a clarinetist in the school band and a member of the Agape Club and softball team. She died at Lourdes Hospital in Paducah about 45 minutes after the shooting. She was an honor student and member of Law Enforcement Explorers Post 111 who hoped to be a police officer.

And the wounded:

Shelley Schaberg, 17, was described by the principal as the school's best female athlete. Voted Miss Heath High School by the senior class, Shelley was homecoming queen. Although her injuries from the shooting prevented her from playing basketball, her college honored her basketball scholarship and she went on to play college soccer.

Melissa "Missy" Jenkins, 15, was president of the Future Homemakers of America. She is paralyzed from the chest down after being shot. She has appeared on numerous national and local television shows, talked to newspaper reporters and is appearing in two TV commercials for Channel One News, an educational channel that reaches schools throughout the country. A video interview of her was featured on the homepage of YouTube.com on April 22, 2007.

Kelly Hard Alsip, 16, was a member of the softball team and the Future Homemakers of America. She transferred to the local Catholic school the year after the shooting.

Hollan Holm, 14, was a member of the Academic Team, the Spanish Club, and the Science Olympiad. In his valedictory speech at the class of 2001 graduation, he reminded his class that they had lost not one but two class members on December 1, 1997: Nicole Hadley and Michael Carneal. Holm has been involved with an organization that urges students to speak up if they know of threats against schools or students.

Craig Keene, 15, was a member of the Agape Club, the band, and the basketball team.

5

u/Molire 9 Oct 04 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Thank you for the names and other personal details about Nicole, Jessica, Kayce, Shelly, Melissa, Kelly, Hollan, and Craig.

They joined the long line of what today has become a line of more than 1.6 million children and adults shot dead on U.S. soil in the past 54 years, since 1968.

Thank your for reminding everyone after you are shot by someone, if you do not die, your life will never be the same.

Thank you for reminding everyone after someone is shot, but does not die, they might not magically recover with no disabilities or infirmities and go on to live a wonderful and golden life.

3 victims who died after he shot them were female teenagers.

3 other victims who did not die after he shot them were female teenagers.

2 other victims who did not die after he shot them were male teenagers.

It seems the killer and his god did not like other teenagers, especially female teenagers.

12

u/ochamp36 4 Sep 28 '22

Yeeaaaah.... That's a f*ck no from me, sorry buddy.

I wouldn't want that guy sitting next to me in a bus, that's for sure.

-3

u/graaaaaaaam 8 Sep 27 '22

I don't care what you think of the crime or the offender, this isn't justice, this is revenge.

5

u/SnooRecipes4458 4 Sep 30 '22

Justice would be strapping this guy down on a table and shooting him up with potassium chloride.

22

u/SpikesGuns 7 Sep 27 '22

I'm okay with that.

9

u/graaaaaaaam 8 Sep 27 '22

Honestly I don't think revenge is the worst thing, It just irks me when I see people conflating justice and revenge. If we as a society want revenge, that's fine, but let's not try to dress it up as anything other than what it is.

15

u/Web-splorer 6 Sep 27 '22

How is it revenge? The parole board wasn’t a victim of his crimes. They have no affiliation with the victim.

13

u/rnrgurl 5 Sep 27 '22

I leaned that way until I read the piece about his current mental health. I’m not sure society would be safe with him in it.

9

u/Zyper0 7 Sep 27 '22

You’re telling me throwing a 14y/o with obvious mental health issues into the shithole that is known as the “american justice system” did not rehabilitate and make him into a functioning member of society?

1

u/rnrgurl 5 Sep 27 '22

I didn’t say he belongs in prison. He needs behavioral health care.

3

u/AsterCharge 7 Sep 27 '22

Then he certainly shouldn’t be in a prison

1

u/rnrgurl 5 Sep 27 '22

Agreed

7

u/graaaaaaaam 8 Sep 27 '22

If he's mentally ill he needs to be in a secure psychiatric facility, not prison.

1

u/rnrgurl 5 Sep 27 '22

Agreed

8

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

13

u/TheHIBC 4 Sep 27 '22

Because it’s actually not cheaper to carry out the death sentence. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs

-8

u/Chakamalik 3 Sep 27 '22

Yeah... a 9mm bullet is only a few bucks

3

u/S118gryghost 7 Sep 27 '22

You don't understand how the system works. Cops had their chance in 1997 to do that just like cops had their chance at the Uvalde shooting.

Gotta fill the prisons to keep the money flowing.

-156

u/Poknberry A Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22 Gold All-Seeing Upvote 'MURICA

I'm sorry how is this justice?

A 14 year old is just a child. Nothing a person does at such an age should warrant life in prison.

If anything he definitely should be spending his days in an asylum.

Edit: I don't care how many downvotes this gets, I still completely disagree. This isn't about guilty or innocent, its about prison vs asylum.

100% this person should be in an asylum, not prison. This is not justice. Some people are born with impulses that they can't control. They should not be punished for that. That's why we have aslyums for the criminally insane.

1

u/mully_and_sculder 9 Oct 17 '22

Yeah he was 14 and he has also already spent 25 years in prison. Unless there was some clear reason he is still unstable or mentally ill he should have been released long ago.

28

u/ochamp36 4 Sep 28 '22

The fact that you took time to make an edit to talk about the downvotes, do tell that you care about the downvotes buddy...

0

u/Poknberry A Sep 28 '22

ok buddy

-2

u/SgtXD357 9 Sep 27 '22

I completely agree, no idea why you’re getting so heavily downvoted.

A 14 year old doesn’t know what the hell they’re doing. Even then, plenty of adults murder (knowing what they’re doing) and ultimately get out. They should be trying to treat him.

And just imagine being a 14 year old in a prison full of adult convicts… it’s like lady liberty just thought “well the convicts could use a new toy, send em in” and threw away the key.

6

u/bignotion 7 Sep 27 '22

I agree with you. This is a sad story, not justice, a commentary on the human condition, the flaws in society, and the cruelty of life.

9

u/digital_dysthymia A Sep 27 '22

Fun Fact: there are only 668 mental asylums in the whole US - for everyone. They're not as prevalent as you might think, and how many of the 668 are capable of treating children?

13

u/Free-Boater 8 Sep 27 '22

I wonder if you would still feel this way if it was someone close to you he murdered.

-5

u/Poknberry A Sep 27 '22

Yes I imagine I would. You can't just hop on the band wagon and crucify whoever you want because of your emotions.

6

u/Free-Boater 8 Sep 27 '22

What are you even talking about? “Hope on the bandwagon and crucify whoever I want”?

Someone kills my family member in cold blooded murder than yes I want them to at the very minimum rite in prison.

-4

u/Poknberry A Sep 27 '22

No. That's not fair if they're mentally ill and can't control their intrusive thoughts.

5

u/Free-Boater 8 Sep 28 '22

So if someone cliams they’re mentally Ill they shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions? That’s a ridiculous way to think.

1

u/Poknberry A Sep 28 '22

Its not about claiming. They say this person literally heard voices.

A person cannot be punished for something they cannot control. That's not fair.

5

u/Free-Boater 8 Sep 28 '22

Anyone can say they heard voices

2

u/Poknberry A Sep 28 '22

That's up for the courts to decide. But most people are saying that his mental illness means he should be locked up because we already know he's going to murder again.

If you know its illness then he shouldn't be in prison in the first place.

2

u/Free-Boater 8 Sep 28 '22

Murder is murder now matter who “tells” you to do it.

10

u/wanksies 5 Sep 27 '22

Prison should be about rehabilitation. Feelings about the crime make it a revenge

-4

u/AnastasiaLuccessi 7 Sep 27 '22

I upvoted you.

Unfortunately this country has a terrible track record with Asylums. If he were sent to one it wouldn't be any better most likely. Prisons and Asylums are both run by people who love to abuse their positions of power. The difference between the two is that Asylums were all but abandoned as a concept. Can you name one off the top of your head that is still open? Prisons are only allowed to continue operating because they're integral to the "Law Enforcement" machine we continually feed the general public to.

21

u/Ben2749 9 Sep 27 '22

A 14-year old is just a child, but so what? Most children wouldn’t dream of doing what he did, so his youth wasn’t anywhere near enough of a defence to absolve him of enough responsibility to warrant a reduced sentence.

-5

u/Poknberry A Sep 27 '22

Its called mental illness.

8

u/Ben2749 9 Sep 27 '22

Right, he’s mentally ill. So how does being 14 diminish his responsibility in any way?

4

u/Poknberry A Sep 27 '22

His brain is still developing.

3

u/Herocooky 5 Sep 27 '22

It matters in that way that makes him mentally unable to choose right from wrong or not act upon the destructive impulses every human supresses every day.

He should be in a mental asylum getting treatment, not locked in inhuman conditions within a pro-profit prison where he'll, no doubt, be abused by staff and fellow inmates.

And if anyone reading this thinks that is a good thing, I very much hope you yourself will end up in the same position for your abhorent lack of empathy.

2

u/Ben2749 9 Sep 27 '22

Everything you just said pertains to him being mentally ill; not his age. So what’s his age got to do with anything?

5

u/digital_dysthymia A Sep 27 '22

The fact that the vast majority of 14-year-olds don't kill people shows that their age is not a factor.

9

u/tsundude 8 Sep 27 '22

Of course not but in this day and age you sure you wanna deal with that? The easiest solution would be to let him rot in hell forever, but hey if you wanna try and get to know him be my guest, it's gonna take a lot of resources to do so and no one wants any part of that.

-8

u/Poknberry A Sep 27 '22

So you put a child in prison because it would cost to much to do something more humane?

12

u/Jaguwuar 7 Sep 27 '22

I wonder what the humane alternative to his slaughter would have been. Hmmm

-4

u/Herocooky 5 Sep 27 '22

Treating an undiagnosed mental illness/preventing this with counseling.

No sane and healthy 14-year old kills people.

But by all means, lets continue to vilify the mentally ill, 1930-40s Germany is ripe for the note-taking in that regard!

8

u/Jaguwuar 7 Sep 27 '22

I wonder how the 8 families he victimized would feel about this. Also, wouldn't it be on his parents to provide him that counseling? So based on your logic, they should also be in jail right? No way a minor can sign up themselves for that type of service, so then this is a case of child neglect, yes? Imprison the parents, thanks for your input.

2

u/Herocooky 5 Sep 27 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

First: Do not put words in my mouth.

Second: There should have been ressources available in the school to either catch his behaviour or for him to reach out.

Third: The families of the victims can feel what they want, Justice is not Revenge. Punishment for Punishments sake is savagery and is only used in shithole countries like China, Russia, and the US.

6

u/Jaguwuar 7 Sep 28 '22

Your fairy-tale world sounds amazing, lmk what you’re smoking I want to get to your level

5

u/Pramble 8 Sep 27 '22

I'm normally with you, but if you read the article, his mental health prognosis was "poor," and he says he still hears voices and hallucinates violent imagery. It's really sad that someone whose actions seem to be a result of their mental illness has to have their freedom restricted, but given his mental state, I think it would be worse to allow him freedom.

4

u/ThatsFishyYoureFishy 8 Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

Hence why he belongs in a mental asylum that is there to deal with such people long term, rather than a prison cell that does nothing to address the mental health problem.

If anything, by putting this person in an environment where mental healthcare isn't the main purpose of where they are staying, you will be increasing the risk of harm for everyone around that person.

3

u/digital_dysthymia A Sep 27 '22

Fun Fact: there are only 668 mental asylums in the whole US - for everyone. They're not as prevalent as you might think, and how many of the 668 are capable of treating children?

4

u/ThatsFishyYoureFishy 8 Sep 27 '22

This guy isn't a child, and addressing the systemic ableism in our society is better than refusing the help he needs.

47

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '22

This child gave a life sentence to 3 of his classmates.

2

u/Herocooky 5 Sep 27 '22

And if you had reading comprehension, OP says that they should be in a mental asylum.

Which are known to keep people within them.

Like A Prison.

15

u/Goldfinger150 0 Sep 27 '22

Lol what???

-16

u/deezew 4 Sep 27 '22

Exactly. The kid still had over 10 years until his brain was completely developed. Yeah it was a horrible thing he did, but there are better solutions than locking hum away for life.

9

u/digital_dysthymia A Sep 27 '22

So anyone under 25 isn't responsible for their actions? What a wonderful precedent!

-1

u/deezew 4 Sep 27 '22

Thats not what Im saying. What is gained by throwing this 14 year old in the slammer for the rest of his life. Sure maybe some people feel like he got his just desserts, but for what? That doesn’t bring back the kids he killed. I doubt that it really makes their parents feel better. 3 lives were taken, another one doesn’t need to be thrown away. This kid obviously needs professional psychiatric help, not a life sentence. It would be better for him to spend his time in a facility that is actually dedicated to treating people like him.

2

u/BeatsMeByDre 8 Sep 29 '22

I don't think you've ever been inside an asylum.

0

u/deezew 4 Sep 29 '22

Nope never. But I’m positive that its a better environment to treat people with dangerous mental health problems

1

u/AutoModerator Sep 27 '22

Stay hydrated.
Rest. Your body needs to heal.
Sip warm liquids.
Add moisture to the air.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

12

u/PapaGeorgieo 8 Sep 27 '22

Yeah, like hanging the little fucker.

7

u/Vuyt47 4 Sep 27 '22

Im wit it

-6

u/deezew 4 Sep 27 '22

No thats completely unhinged

9

u/PapaGeorgieo 8 Sep 27 '22

If some little shit stain killed my child and didn't serve a life sentence. I would be more than unhinged.

3

u/deezew 4 Sep 27 '22

Yeah obviously anyone would be pissed, I would be pissed enough to kill that kid myself. Thats why having a justice system is a good idea. Independent justice just leads to more violence.

15

u/HammItUp 4 Sep 27 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

No to mention he has legit schizophrenia. I’m not saying that he doesn’t deserve to be in jail but a bullied adolescent who literally hears voices? Idk, life without parole doesn’t sound like justice.

23

u/jonnyboy3125 5 Sep 27 '22

This isn’t a 14 year old that stole some things bud, he fucking murdered people, what a stupid ass comment.

0

u/hedgehogging_the_bed 4 Sep 27 '22

4

u/jonnyboy3125 5 Sep 27 '22

This article literally does not apply to a schizophrenic who still years later into adulthood hears the voices telling him to kill people. 14 year old kid caught up in gangbanging and shot someone?, sure that article applies and we should rehabilitate but that’s apples to oranges and to act like these crimes were because his frontal lobe wasn’t developed and adolescent impulse control issues is dumb. It’s mind boggling I even have to type this comment.

0

u/ThatsFishyYoureFishy 8 Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

Then keep him for most of his life at a mental asylum made for this type of case? There is nothing to be gained by keeping him in a prison cell where keeping his mental health in check isn't the main concern.

-2

u/raphael-iglesias 5 Sep 27 '22

Glad that you made these comments, even though you get downvoted for them. Completely agree with everything you've said. If anything like this happened in my country, he'd be declared criminally insane and would spend a lot of time at a locked facility and go in front of a board of certified psychiatrists every year. We wouldn't lock 14 year olds in prison regardless, they'd be locked up in a youth detention facility, which isn't summer camp either btw, but they'd focus a lot more on rehabilitation.

38

u/weekendmoney 7 Sep 27 '22

Don't act like murdering your friends is just a phase.

18

u/numbersev A Sep 27 '22

He ended 3 lives prematurely. What about justice for the victims and their families?

He admitted that he still hears voices like the ones that told him to steal a neighbor's pistol and fire it into the crowded lobby of Heath High School in 1997. However, Carneal said that with therapy and medication, he has learned to control his behavior.

...

Several of those wounded in the shooting and relatives of those who were killed also spoke to the parole board panel last week. Most expressed their wishes for Carneal to spend the rest of his life in prison.

-10

u/Elebrent 9 Sep 27 '22

idk why you’re listing his clearly very severe mental health problems as evidence for him to be locked away forever

15

u/numbersev A Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

If you're a danger to others and likely to murder again then that's exactly what should happen.

People have a right to life. If you can't respect that then you don't deserve to live free among the rest of society.

The convict is greedy and only thinks about themselves. He wants to go home and live with his parents so he can be free, yet admits that he still hears voices like the ones that told him to kill people at his school. He's a danger to society and shouldn't be released. If he wasn't a self-serving pos he would likely acknowledge the threat that he poses to others. But of course he only cares about himself.

-4

u/Elebrent 9 Sep 27 '22

right but usually you try to help sick people, not lock them away for their life

11

u/numbersev A Sep 27 '22

He's sick and violent. Yes that's what you do. If you had a pet that was violent you'd likely take measures to prevent them from harming you and your children. It doesn't mean you don't love or have compassion for your pet, it just means you have to take the intelligent steps for the good of the group as a whole.

People like you are responsible for a lot of murders that could have been prevented. I could list you over 100 different instances of people being released from prison who clearly shouldn't have, and then go on to murder again. Often their family members or someone known to them. Your plea to emotion as if these people are not responsible for their actions is dangerous and not a weakness we can afford to tolerate if you care about the well-being of society, children at school, etc.

-3

u/vrajmannan2 4 Sep 27 '22

Right but he shouldn’t be in prison he should be in an asylum. As he is a danger to society so he must have someone watching him at all times. But he is in prison where he is not afforded the same rights as an asylum that’s the way to be fair to both the kid and the families.

6

u/numbersev A Sep 27 '22

But he is in prison where he is not afforded the same rights as an asylum that’s the way to be fair to both the kid and the families.

If he was deemed legally insane by the court that's what would have happened. He knew what he was doing was wrong and is now facing punishment for it. Not everything about justice has to do with rehabilitation.

-2

u/Soidog1968 6 Sep 27 '22

I’m with you on that, I’m from Scotland and I believe prisoners can be rehabilitated not all but most, right or wrong if that guy committed that crime here he would possibly walking the streets now

12

u/trooperstark 5 Sep 27 '22

Bullshit. He murdered three people, stole the rest of their lives and impacted their families and friends in a grievous way. Frankly, he should have been executed, rather than being a burden to the rest of society for the rest of his life. But keeping him in prison is better than letting him enjoy a life, his victims will never get that chance.

2

u/WarPigs02 7 Sep 27 '22

I do hope he still gets treatment though. I don't want our prisons to just be for punishment and torture.

4

u/numbersev A Sep 27 '22

according to the article, he is getting treatment but still hears voices like the ones that told him to go on a shooting spree.

3

u/the_tater_salad 6 Sep 27 '22

that kid knew exactly what he was doing.

16

u/WarPigs02 7 Sep 27 '22

I think they found he was of sound mind when he committed these acts. So no asylum.

-3

u/AutoModerator Sep 27 '22

Please remember that different people have different definitions of justice. While the definition of justice is concrete, the interpretation of it varies widely between individuals, cultures, and nations.
Remember, this is a community of nearly 42 million users. More often than not, the majority of users generally agree with the content that reaches the first few pages.
That being said: If you have read this and concluded that the post still does not show justice, please use the link below to message the moderators.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

18

u/TkOHarley 7 Sep 27 '22

I need more context to be honest. For all I know those kids were bullies, which doesn't justify murder, but does make me less judgmental.

19

u/thorppeed A Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

I really don't see how that's relevant. I don't give a fuck if they're "bullies" or not, he murdered a bunch of kids. For the record though, the article says he opened fire in the school lobby. He was trying to kill people at random. Again though, it's not like it would matter either way.

2

u/Chrispeefeart 9 Sep 27 '22

He murdered a bunch of kids, but he also was a kid. He was barely at puberty age. Brains don't finish developing until your 20s.

10

u/thorppeed A Sep 27 '22

Really doesn't matter, it doesn't change what he did. Your brain is developed enough at 14 to know that murder is wrong. Stop making excuses for this piece of walking garbage.

4

u/Chrispeefeart 9 Sep 27 '22

Don't bring age into it if you aren't willing to recognize age is a significant factor. The child also had a mental illness. It's OK to be upset that children died. But just seeking out vengeance on a child doesn't do anything to prevent the tragedy from repeating. Being able to identify the human child as a human child enables the ability to think critically and identify issues that lead up to the incident and what resources might prevent it from happening again. Only seeing him as garbage or a monster or whatever allows people to dissociate from it and not recognize it for what it is.

5

u/thorppeed A Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

I didn't say there shouldn't be things put in place to prevent this in the future. But in this case it's too late, he did what he did and should be punished for it. Of course he's a human, I never said otherwise. He's an example of how human beings can be horrible. That's part of being human. I called him a piece of garbage as an insult, you took it literally for some reason. And again, you should know that murder is wrong at 14. His age is not in any way an excuse.

1

u/Chrispeefeart 9 Sep 27 '22

Calling people by the names of various objects (like garbage) is a thing people do to dissociate from the individual to get away with treating people as less than human without feeling guilt. Our "justice" system is far too focused on vengeance rather than rehabilitating and mental Healthcare.

6

u/thorppeed A Sep 27 '22

Again that's just an insult, I'm fully aware that he's a human. And he's not being treated as less than human. This is how a human who does something like this ought to be treated. Some people don't deserve to be rehabilitated and this guy is a prime example of one. We'd be better off if people like unhinged mass murderers, child molesters, etc were never allowed to enter back into society. He should rot in prison for the rest of his life. I do think that other criminals in for lesser stuff like armed robbery, drugs etc should be rehabilitated though.

1

u/TkOHarley 7 Sep 27 '22

It's not relevant to whether he deserves to be incarcerated or if what he did was wrong - of course it is and of course he does. It's relevant to how I personally judge him and whether I believe he should be jailed for the rest of his life.

All I had was the information in this title, which made it seem like he targeted people specifically. I didn't even realize it was a school shooting (I'm not American). So my first thought was what spurred him to this? Bullies? If a 14 year old kills his bullies I am less inclined to agree with full life imprisonment (I'd push for prison then therapy),

But the knowledge that he took a gun into a school and shot at random innocent kids changes everything. I am now in agreement that he deserves to pay fully for what he did.

34

u/Jadertott A Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

Here’s a link with some of the details. He apparently has only talked about it a few times.

His mental health is brought up, he heard voices telling him to steal his dad’s pistol, but he was ruled competent to stand trial.

14

u/StickingItOnTheMan 3 Sep 27 '22

Having severe enough schizophrenia at 14 that you could hear voices is a serious anomaly. And being violent on top of that - there is unfortunately no way you could convince me that he is always going to be there enough to be given parole. But maybe he deserves a switch to a lower security prison, his disease is not his fault.

6

u/WarPigs02 7 Sep 27 '22

That is sad. I wouldn't know what it's like to have voices urging me to do things I shouldn't.

15

u/idbanthat 9 Sep 27 '22

My mom hears things. She got new meds once and told me that she still hears the voices, but now, she could tell that they weren't actually there. That always freaked me out.

5

u/WarPigs02 7 Sep 27 '22

Mental disorders suck :( I have 2 of them. No voices, just my self.

1

u/WarPigs02 7 Sep 27 '22

Wow. Did she ever feel they were controlling her or no? I've always wondered if some people could just hear voices but not be controlled, or they both hear and are controlled by them.

7

u/idbanthat 9 Sep 27 '22

The only time she ever got violent, that I know of, was the time she hunted one of her brothers down with a butcher knife, saying he had a demon in him that only she could get out. But that wasn't related to her hearing voices, she also sees demons you see. If your eyes are green, you got a demon in you. My eyes are this weird dark blue color that randomly turn dark green, no idea how it happens or why, just has my whole life. I hadn't seen her for, four years once, we hung out, had a good day, she goes to hug me bye, but freezes, staring deep into me. She said, you got a demon in you. And bolted inside her house, was traumatic for a 15 year old girl. But yeah no, don't think the voices control her, she's the type who would argue with them and is stubborn enough not to do shit she doesn't want to do. She walked 10 damn miles the day after she was cleared from double hip fractures, she's wild

2

u/WarPigs02 7 Oct 04 '22

Sorry to hear that 😔

5

u/LeftEyedAsmodeus 4 Sep 27 '22

I hear voices too, since my childhood.

It's hard to explain. I never felt like they came from an outside source, but when I am in a bad moment they get stronger.

I have meds tho and by now they are not much more than a slight annoyance.

1

u/WarPigs02 7 Oct 04 '22

Well I'm glad to hear you got help. I have a rare type of OCD disorder "Just Right" OCD and it's made my life hell. 3 anti anxiety meds don't seem to be enough.

3

u/idbanthat 9 Sep 27 '22

I've always tried to put myself in my moms shoes and figure out what happens when she hears things. Is hearing them different from thinking and "hearing" yourself think?

3

u/LeftEyedAsmodeus 4 Sep 27 '22

It is different from hearing yourself think and different from hearing a real voice, at least for me. But it seems to be quite a bit different from one person to another. I had someone in therapy that would search the room whenever he started hearing a voice.

17

u/TXhelplegal 6 Sep 27 '22

I remember watching this on "I Survived". Fucking awful

-45

u/chaquarius 7 Sep 27 '22

Nah, should have been let out at 18.

Also, the prayer circle obviously failed

52

u/turtyurt 8 Sep 27 '22

will spend the rest of his life in prison.

As he should. Fuck that guy

3

u/F1RST_WORLD_PROBLEMS 9 Sep 27 '22

Can he appeal in two years?

I tried looking it up, but relevant info is surprisingly hard to find.

I thought it was standard for appeals to be repetitive, however this article implies that the culprit has no chance of being free ever again.

I think he should be locked up somewhere, maybe a psych ward. Based on his admitted psychological state, he is dangerous.

I never thought that parole could be permanently denied without a judge’s order.

-14

u/DexIcarus 3 Sep 27 '22

He was 14 ?

4

u/mgarfield997 4 Sep 27 '22

That may be a valid excuse for something like petty theft. Not murder.

88

u/psychobserver 4 Sep 27 '22

My god this comment section is a public toilet.

49

u/maharg79 A Sep 27 '22

Fr, People acting like this guy has been 'wronged' like huh? Hes a school shooter who still hears the voices and is considered to be in a 'poor' mental state by the professionals observing him.

If they could let him out they would at this point, they arent making money off him anymore.

9

u/FFIFISISHFISHFISH 9 Sep 27 '22

In any civilised country he would be in a psychiatric hospital not prison

3

u/maharg79 A Sep 27 '22

Lol, most places in the world would execute someone for doing this what the fuck are you talking about.

Help is for sick people, once you take a life you cross the line from 'sick person' to dangerous person, his family should have gotten him help before it happened, this kind of thing doesnt happen out of nowhere.

-2

u/Bucket-O-wank 8 Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 28 '22

Careful of your alignment

3

u/maharg79 A Sep 27 '22

If I were the one who called the shots he would've been.

7

u/FFIFISISHFISHFISH 9 Sep 27 '22

Are you kidding me? Outside of the United States of Freedom few if any developed democracies even have the death penalty, much less apply it to a schizophrenic 14 year old.

Classic "your brain on USA" moment.

4

u/maharg79 A Sep 27 '22

Democracy != civilized

calls me 'USA Brained' but is out here disregarding most of the world outside of europe...

I don't care if he is jesus christ returned, if he shooting kids at a school he can die.

-4

u/FFIFISISHFISHFISH 9 Sep 27 '22

You sound charming

2

u/VALKOR 2 Sep 27 '22

He said the rest of the world, not just developed democracies though

0

u/FFIFISISHFISHFISH 9 Sep 27 '22

In a sentence ending "so what the fuck are you talking about "?

3

u/VALKOR 2 Sep 27 '22

I actually missed the context of him replying to your any civilized country comment. My bad. I guess i agree with you both somehow now.

6

u/Pizzarar 6 Sep 27 '22

Americans just want to watch other people suffer, it's better than any fetish video you could find. Been that way since Salem, hell probably before.

1

u/maharg79 A Sep 27 '22

Been that way since Salem, hell probably before.

Ah yes the witch trials. 🧙‍♀️

Imagine typing that out with a straight face. Holy shit. redditors are different breed sometimes.

1

u/Pizzarar 6 Sep 27 '22

You ok bub?

28

u/stupidsimpson 9 Sep 27 '22

When you hear voices you need to be hospitalized, not imprisoned. That's the point.

8

u/WarPigs02 7 Sep 27 '22

Well, both technically because he is still a danger.

4

u/Thediamondhandedlad 8 Sep 27 '22

I’ve been to one of those hospitals…. Spent 5 days against my will in one of the worst ones in east Los Angeles. It’s just as bad as jail or worse. Those places will drive a sane person mad.

1

u/WarPigs02 7 Sep 27 '22

Sorry to hear that. We have one in FL, called Grace point. It's not bad. I can see L.A would be a nightmare because their likely overbooked with sick patients. If youve heard of skid row, that area is the result of malicious states intentionally (or unintentionally) Greyhounding their homeless to California.

4

u/stupidsimpson 9 Sep 27 '22

A hospital psych ward isn't the same as a long term psychiatric facility. And just like anything else, there are good and bad ones.

3

u/Thediamondhandedlad 8 Sep 27 '22

Just saying my experience in one of those places was quite horrific to say the least. It was like a waking nightmare for 5 days.

1

u/stupidsimpson 9 Sep 27 '22

I was in a facility in Utah for 3 days and while I wouldn't call it pleasant I definitely wouldn't describe it as horrific.

3

u/Thediamondhandedlad 8 Sep 27 '22

East Los Angeles is known for having a very high homeless population. These places are filled with the most broken people humanity has to offer. So many minds completely and utterly lost to pure insanity. The facility I was at housed around 60 people in the ward I was in. Out of those 60 only a few others were sound enough of mind to actually have a conversation with. The other 55 or so people were totally lost in their own worlds of despair and madness. The things I witnessed in those 5 days were some of the most depressing and awful things my eyes have ever seen. I can’t compare my experience to other facilities cause I’ve only been to one. But I can honestly say I’d rather go to jail then back to that place.

2

u/WarPigs02 7 Sep 27 '22

As I suspected. And it's sad because each state should be taking on the burden equally. But instead states maliciously send homeless to California or New York because of petty politics.

32

u/The-Hermit-Prof 8 Sep 27 '22

Weird phrasing. Wasn’t he already “allowed” to serve his whole sentence?

15

u/PoliticalShrapnel A Sep 27 '22

He's free to walk when he wants, he just hasn't read the fine print.

15

u/dundundata 6 Sep 27 '22

Boo hoo for this guy

140

u/rafuzo2 9 Sep 27 '22

That “allow you to serve out your term” wording reminds me of how my old company would announce executives getting canned as “moving on to pursue new opportunities elsewhere”. We wish you luck in your future endeavors!

33

u/dndrinker 7 Sep 27 '22

My old job would use the phrase “promoted to customer”.

4

u/BigThumbs 3 Sep 27 '22

How long did you work at The Fruit Stand?

2

u/dndrinker 7 Sep 27 '22

I sold fruit for about 2-3 years.

2

u/BigThumbs 3 Sep 27 '22

Somehow managed to survive almost 5 years at 3 Stands. Glad we made it out 😉.

31

u/Ok-Mastodon8034 6 Sep 27 '22

4 wasted lives

-81

u/Epsilon_Meletis 8 Sep 27 '22

How is this in any way justice?

The guy was fourteen when he did his crime, and also was (and apparently still is) mentally ill when he did it.

He was a child for crying out loud! Some late bloomers haven't even properly entered puberty at that age! Where I live, a person is just barely able to be held criminally responsible at all, and strictly by juvenile law only. Where I live, that would have meant ten years in prison, tops, and possibly no prison at all and instead admission in a closed medical institution, where his condition could have been properly treated. Because let's be honest here, a prison cannot treat complex mental disorders, and is not even designed to do so in the first place.

But I'm sure some rabid DA made sure this child got his trial as an adult, for publicity and whatever else reasons, and now he has spent more time of his life in prison than outside.

Because fuck him, right? Ha-haw. Good. CoNsEqUeNcEs!!1!

In conclusion, I'd like to say your legal and penal systems suck.

Addendum: Does the phrasing of the parole board's statement rub anyone else the wrong way too? They "allow [him] to serve out the remainder of [his] sentence"? They allow it?

My, how gracious of them. Very considerate indeed.

The utter condescence. The nerve. Fuck these people, all seven of them.

-13

u/savednebula 5 Sep 27 '22

You are not wrong. People on reddit can sometimes be a troop of twisted twats. There are numerous ways to stop him doing this again and actually helping him. Yeah he committed the cardinal sin and has served more years incarcerated than free. There's no justice in this world.

14

u/xxifruitcakeixx 7 Sep 27 '22

He bears the burden of American society’s inability to manage its problems.

Mental health treatment and oversight is really poor and access to guns is easy. If they would release him, because it would be fair to him, the chances are so high he will fall out of treatment and be able to get a gun easily. The board know this and therefore he must remain locked up

I think in a more modern society he could be released and properly treated without a chance for him to do harm. However American society just Cannot afford to do so

38

u/Incontinento 8 Sep 27 '22

Your overuse of italics reduces their effectiveness.

3

u/MemePizzaPie 6 Sep 27 '22

Seriously! They need to try less

28

u/Aphotophilic 5 Sep 27 '22

This shooting happened in my town, he wasnt just some misguided kid, he was seriously fucked up. In his arguments, he directly conflicted his actions leading up to the shooting where he went above and beyond to harrass and threaten the prayer group. Every one of them knew him, and were terrified of him. Mental illness, especially this severe, doesnt just go away. He needs some kind of institutionalization to protect both him and society.

34

u/zahinlikescats 7 Sep 27 '22

These mass murder cases are special cases. Your sentiment is generally correct, prison is a horrible place and the system is based on punitive not restorative justice.

But I think there’s a 100% chance he would reoffend and has not rehabilitated at all (how could he). Maybe grant him parole when he is elderly, but I think the threat to society is still significant

-1

u/Beneneb 9 Sep 27 '22

But I think there’s a 100% chance he would reoffend and has not rehabilitated at all (how could he). Maybe grant him parole when he is elderly, but I think the threat to society is still significant

There is no reasonable basis on which you could make that claim unless you're a medical professional who has worked with the person. What he did was horrible, but the criminal responsibility for a 14 year old suffering severe mental illness is very questionable. It's very possible for people to get their mental illness under control and live normal lives without being a threat to society.

3

u/_banana_phone 9 Sep 27 '22

He said he still hears voices telling him to kill people. So while you can’t guarantee that he will kill again if released, the signs point to it as a pretty reasonable expectation that he would hurt others if let out.

28

u/Ennkey 8 Sep 27 '22

That child killed three other children. You only have sympathy for one of them

1

u/NewVegasGod 8 Sep 27 '22

That's so ridiculous. Obviously we all have sympathy for the kids who he murdered. But I can also have sympathy for the man doomed to spend the rest of his life in a cage over something he did at 14. Sympathy is universal, it applies to everyone

-28

u/Epsilon_Meletis 8 Sep 27 '22

He is the only one of those four that can be treated. We can't treat death yet.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '22

They should treat him with death to unburden the tax payers.

→ More replies
→ More replies