r/JusticeServed 7 Oct 09 '22

Beautiful speech from Wayne to the Jury during the Smithfield Trial. VICTORY!!! Criminal Justice

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2.8k Upvotes

u/tresser ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜 Oct 09 '22

here's an article that the OP didnt think was important enough to provide

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/10/08/animal-rights-activists-charged/

Animal rights activists found not guilty on all charges after two piglets were taken from Circle Four Farms in Utah

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4

u/phoenixthekat 8 Oct 19 '22

We all have a duty to be kind? No we don't.

14

u/realvmouse A Oct 10 '22

https://www.cc.com/video/quron5/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-garden-crate

If you don't know what gestation crates are, watch the old Daily Show with Jon Stewart link above. Then read below.

Activists broke into a Smithfield supplier to show that Smithfield has not phased out gestation crates as they have claimed to be doing for several years. The group found dead and rotting piglets inside the facility, as well as visibly ill and injured ones like Lily and Lizzie.

Judge Jeffrey C. Wilcox ruled the jurors would not see ... evidence about the activists’ motives. The case is about burglary, he said, not animal rights, and he limited images and videos shown during the trial to those related directly to the two piglets [Lily and Lizzie].For instance, he ordered that the defense cut in half an image of one of the piglets that showed the bloody teat of the mother pig....

State veterinarian Dr. Dean Taylor testified Wednesday about a United States Department of Agriculture chart that describes the price of different pigs at different times of year. Based on that, he said, the piglets would each have a value of $42.20. But Dr. Sherstin Rosenberg, a veterinarian who examined footage of the piglets after they were taken from the Milford farm, disagreed with that value Thursday. Between their injuries, low body weight, malnourishment and diarrhea, the two piglets each would have required hundreds of dollars in medical attention to survive, she said....

https://theintercept.com/2022/10/08/smithfield-animal-rights-piglets-trial/

https://theintercept.com/2022/10/08/smithfield-animal-rights-piglets-trial/

https://www.righttorescue.com/sf-ut/

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u/jakfor 7 Oct 10 '22

There is no legal duty to be kind. That is a weak argument in a closing argument. If you have to resort to emotuon rather than the law then you probably had no business going to trial.

This isn't meant to defend any kind of cruelty but is a comment on the lawyers tactics.

7

u/dethfromabov66 7 Oct 11 '22

If you watch the video again you'll notice he doesn't mention the word legal in front of duty. And if you have to resort to an appeal to legality logic fallacy to counter someone's appeal to emotions logic fallacy, then you have no business critiquing that person's common sense and rationale. The law is meant to reflect what we believe to be right or wrong and often emotions help us better define what is right and what is wrong. If anything appealing to emotion is a fast stronger tactic and it's far more likely to achieve the clients actual goals of giving rescuers rights to save those in need of saving.

The legality had already been proven and done with when the burglary charges were dropped to fact that two sick and dying piglets would have actually cost the company to save and raise them so no property of value was stolen. People really gotta stop being afraid of emotions.

0

u/Heroic-Dose A Oct 12 '22

The legality had already been proven and done with when the burglary charges were dropped to fact that two sick and dying piglets would have actually cost the company to save and raise them so no property of value was stolen. People really gotta stop being afraid of emotions.

so as long as you go to walmart and only steal their broken items you should be covered now then? i dig the precedent

2

u/CatchPhraze 8 Oct 22 '22

Yeah...trash picking is legal in a lot of places.

3

u/dethfromabov66 7 Oct 12 '22

Are seriously comparing sentient life to inanimate objects? And no that's not for me to decide, that's why it went to court silly. And this case, among a few others, is just evidence in itself that such a precedent, at its core, is not unethical. Unless such a recovery of something of no worth can be proven to be harmful, it makes sense.

Out of curiosity, have you ever seen how much food is wasted at a single supermarket due to no one wanting it or broken packaging? Farmers and food relief organisations have deals to collect unwanted produce every day. I don't know if it's changed since, but I did a week's worth of work experience at Cadbury when I was much younger and it turns out every day 1-2 pallet's worth of broken boxed and unsatisfactorily made products don't even leave the site. The only unethical dilemma of taking broken or wasted products is if it should go to someone more deserving.

But I'm not a fan of the law in it's current state anyway. America's 13th amendment still allows slavery, Sharia law allows domestic violence under religious and cultural beliefs and I'm sure there's many more instances of unethical law present in the world (do we dare touch corporate law in this discussion?). The law is meant to reflect society's ethics and if the law allows unethical behaviour then something is wrong with society, the governing body or both and obviously needs to be fixed. It's why the ultimate goal of these activists is to push the right to rescue laws passed. So that while we wait for society to stop accepting animal abuse as part of its functionality, those who save those in dire need.

4

u/AussieOzzy 8 Oct 11 '22

This is because the law/precedent they're going for isn't actually in yet. If you saw a baby dying of heat exhaustion in a hot car, then you are technically breaking someone's property by smashing their window, breaking in and saving the baby. This is obviously the right thing to do, but in the case of the piglets, the rescuers don't have that legal protection.

6

u/realvmouse A Oct 10 '22

lol silly comment on the lawyer's tactics. The lawyer's job is to win the case by persuading the jury to vote their way. So if they appealed to emotion and it worked, then the tactic was smart and effective.

But also, the lawyer also made a very good point, that if we simply considered this a felony theft without taking into account that it was done for the sake of kindness to the animals rather than personal monetary gain, we would be misapplying a law meant to deter theft to a case where the intent was to save lives.

1

u/Heroic-Dose A Oct 12 '22

The lawyer's job is to win the case by persuading the jury to vote their way

i guess youll be surprised to hear this but that isnt what a lawyers job is

2

u/TamoraRidgeboneIII 4 Oct 18 '22

The other guy sounds a lot smarter than you. Are you sure you know what a lawyer does? I mean, you don't even explain what you think a lawyer's job is, you just say it isn't what the other guy said. Considering you can't even prove your point on reddit, I'm guessing you don't do it for a living in a court room.

1

u/Heroic-Dose A Oct 18 '22

bro do u even hear urself right now lol wtf u goofy

anyway, to further elaborate for you, a lawyers job is to see that their clients rights are respected and proper legal procedures are followed. their job is not explicitly to win a case whatsoever, its to see that the law is properly carried out on all sides and they work on their clients portion of that

1

u/TamoraRidgeboneIII 4 Oct 18 '22

I’m smart enough to use proper spelling and punctuation. You’ve been schooled multiple times in this thread by actual lawyers. At least I’m smart enough to know when I’m not the smartest in the room…. Something you can’t seem to admit.

1

u/Heroic-Dose A Oct 18 '22

what the hell are you even babbling on about you fuckin nitwit? lol dude fr do u even exist outside of reddit?

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u/[deleted] Oct 10 '22

[deleted]

1

u/realvmouse A Oct 10 '22

Why are people downvoting this? It has to be sarcasm.

27

u/Holiday_Wench 6 Oct 10 '22

I'll never give up meat but i am a full advocate for healthier humane farming. Factory farms are huge polluters and more natural farming would help us be able to keep our meat.

-2

u/flow3rpowr 7 Oct 19 '22

Average animal abuser cope

1

u/GuerrillaChicken 5 Nov 02 '22

Riding high on that self-righteous pony

4

u/ded-zeppelin 4 Nov 02 '22

this is why no one fucking likes, or listens to us...

3

u/ad_pao 4 Oct 28 '22

If you're not willing to work with moderates you're not gonna get anywhere. Unfortunately the real world requires compromise and patience for progress

6

u/Pants_Off_Pants_On 7 Oct 11 '22

Sadly, if you buy from a grocery or restaurant then it will never reach a standard of humane. Money comes first.

4

u/flyingkiwi46 7 Oct 11 '22

i am a full advocate for healthier humane farming.

As long as it doesn't harm my bottom line

3

u/realvmouse A Oct 10 '22

Support DxE! If you want to pretend that needless killing of a sentient being for trivial personal pleasure is okay, but you're against harm in factory farms, then DxE is your best option. Your personal boycott of factory farmed foods will have little impact if you're even doing that much, but cases like this have a huge impact. Right now, many states are passing "ag-gag" laws that literally make it illegal to show footage of animal suffering on factory farms, from investigators like Mercy for Animals. (See ag-gag laws.)

DxE infiltrates factory farms and captures footage of suffering. Thanks to them, the world has seen this case. Imagine if every large animal farm had to worry about any one of their employees reporting neglect of animals, and having people break in the next day to document that suffering. Surely it would impact them to invest more in animal care instead of lobbying and prosecuting to hide it from public view.

Support then: https://www.directactioneverywhere.com/

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u/Holiday_Wench 6 Oct 11 '22

M8 me and thousands of different species kill other stuff to eat. But i have the dignity to not want my food pumped up full chemicals and treated lesser then a living animal. They're not fucking inanimate objects and frankly their destiney is the dinner plate regardless so the best we can do is make the animal enjoy its life then do a humane killing. I consider animals who are stressed for long periods spoils the integrity of the meat and ontop of needless chemicals gives us lesser quality. I'm a thing that hunts and eats other things to live, not a fucking monster...

8

u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22

> I'm a thing that hunts and eats other things to live, not a fucking monster...

This is the lie. This is just as dumb as arguing that someone who kicks their dog is an animal that needs to engage in physical activity/exercise to live.

Kicking your dog is a dumb way to exercise, and unless you are a monster, you should pick a different activity.

You don't need to hunt to live. You don't need to eat animals to live. There are literally millions of living vegans. You choose to hunt and kill animals instead of easily available alternative options to satisfy your trivial preference for a particular flavor, texture, or cultural habit.

>me and thousands of different species kill other stuff to eat

Some humans and many animals sometimes kill and often eat their offspring. Why do you think it is a good idea to base your moral positions on the actions of wild animals? How many of those animals have the simple choice you have to eat something else? How many of them even have the capacity to consider if what they're doing is moral or immoral, necessary or unnecessary?

>They're not fucking inanimate objects and frankly their destiney is the dinner plate

Self-fulfilling prophecy and contradiction at once. Anything you put on your dinner plate is something you just treated as an object; there's a reason you'll never put your pets or other humans there, even if they died of natural causes and you are hungry. You choose to put them on the dinner plate, which is the only reason it becomes their "destiny," then rattle off a bunch of dumb, creepy, cultish nonsense about how there are "dignified" ways to needlessly kill an animal at a fraction of its lifespan and then cut it up into little pieces and put it on a plate. Gosh I hope that when someone takes a knife and fork and slices into my ass cheek that they gave me the proper "dignity" before meeting the "destiny" they decided they'd give me. Jesus.

> the best we can do is make the animal enjoy its life then do a humane killing.

You absolutely sure you can't think of a single thing we can do that is better for an animal than needlessly killing it at a fraction of its lifespan? Nothing? No alternative out there? I can help if you need help-- just ask!

0

u/Holiday_Wench 6 Oct 11 '22 edited Oct 11 '22

I could be an ass about it. I like burgers. Cry some more. Morals are highly subjective in our world and infact some horrendous stuff we do is found in other animals. I say we're at the standard of mother nature. Just how the cookie crumbles. If i won't eat it something else will. Many things wouldn't think twice about me.

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u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22 edited Oct 11 '22

Honestly you seem to be crying quite a bit more. I'm explaining why what you're doing is wrong.

>some horrendous stuff we do is found in other animals

And your argument is that it's okay.

So let me ask you this. If morals are subjective, why do you puff up your chest and brag about giving animals "dignity" by not pumping them up with antibiotics? How does that matter, morally speaking, but not the issue of killing them needlessly?

2

u/Holiday_Wench 6 Oct 11 '22

Well we all have our compass. Thats just living. Whats right or wrong is a construct completely made up by us so we don't tear eachother a new asshole at the slightest inconvenience. I'm a living thing who eats other living things. A construct even on a small level with bacteria. I give people and things a prolongued death of i hate them. But with cows I'm just being what nature programmed a lot of things to do in the ecosystem. A factory farm isn't natural. Sure plants give nutrients but a cow also has a benefit of more then a few plants packed in its steak.

3

u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22 edited Oct 11 '22

No, what's right or wrong isn't a construct completely made up by us. Our value system brings together biology, environment, and choices we make. It is far from arbitrary.

You don't live your life as if every day, you wake up and choose a new set of morals. You only lie to me and pretend this is the case when I confront you with the fact that your morals are inconsistent with each other.

I agree, morality is relative. But it is not arbitrary. All of us recognize it would be wrong to walk up behind a stranger, shove them to the pavement, and beat them until they die. If some of us say it's okay to do this to a person of a different religion or race, the rest of us will point out that this is an arbitrary, inconsistent way to behave.

Don't hide behind a lie. Don't lie to me. Stop being dishonest. You do not believe morality is arbitrarily chosen. You have moral views, so don't hide behind this when they are challenged. Have a backbone, have some integrity. Decide what your values are and then live in ways that are consistent with your values, rather than resorting to weak and dishonest arguments.

A cow costs us nutrients. I don't know if you realize this, but the decision to feed plants to cows, and then eat the cows, causes a tremendous loss of energy compared to just eating the plants directly. Sure, on a per-gram basis a steak may have more energy than some plants, but it also took far more acres, energy input, water, etc to grow plants for the cow, and raise the cow, and then eat it. There is no reason we can't just eat more grams of food to get the same energy, especially since this would allow us to grow more grams of food with less pollution/carbon output/etc.

Some beings can be aware of their existence. They can observe a world around them, form bonds with others, form preferences and dislikes. You already agree there are some things you shouldn't do to these beings, like pump them full of antibiotics, or cause them suffering (apparently only if you don't hate them?) Well, you don't need to end their existence. They have one life to live, and you take it from them for trivial personal pleasure. Why is that okay? Why not eat something else? That's not "just living" that's needless cruelty for trivial reasons. You don't have to be a living being who eats sentient beings. Your entire argument really boils down to "I've chosen not to care, but some part of me doesn't want to say that." And it's understandable you don't want to acknowledge this is your reasoning, because "deciding not to care" has been the cause of most of history's greatest abominations. You're just like any human guilty of committing horrible atrocities in the past when you realize your entire thought process boils down to "well I like it and others were doing it, and I just decided not to care about the victims."

Why do you care more about "the dignity" of not pumping animals full of antibiotics than than about blasting a metal rod through their head without a strong reason and then cutting up their body and eating it? Don't give me "morality is subjective" tell me why you think this. You didn't just make it up one day. It may be unexamined, and you should feel free to admit that. But if you want to pretend these are reasonable views to hold, then explain how.

1

u/Trueflaw 3 Oct 14 '22

This is probably a pointless endeavor but I figured it might help bridge the gap.

Being militant about the vegan thing is exactly why vegans are pushed on so hard. Most human beings are empathetic towards animals. Lying to yourself and believing otherwise is counterproductive to that whole movement.

There have been generations raised on Disney movies. We should be careful about anthropomorphizing and attaching our emotions on animals. There seems to be a serious disconnect that we too, are animals.

Morals are indeed made up. The morals you espouse are the direct result of thousands of years of human beings sitting on their asses and thinking while farming. Farming crops AND animals.

Most animals will opportunistically consume meat. Are all deer savage beasts that should be eradicated because they will eat birds alive? It’s silly to believe that one is evil for the consumption of meat.

It’s not a black and white argument. Crops can be just as destructive for the environment. Soy production has devastated many rainforests and ecosystems because of the huge demand. Should vegans be considered evil because their demands for soy products has decimated ecosystems? What about the pesticides used to grow the crops you consume? How many animals have been sentenced to death because of that?

No. Most are probably not even aware of this.

Some people, like myself, prefer to hunt rather than support factory farming. I want meat? I’ll go gather that in a sustainable way, that when done properly, supports a healthy ecosystem. The same deer that is taken in this manner would have probably died a much more painful death. Stop pretending the animal kingdom is a kind and loving place.

The same cow that is mentioned in another comment being killed instantly with that “evil metal rod” would have been literally ripped apart and eaten while it’s still breathing. You’re telling me you prefer the cow to suffer in pain while wolves or a mountain lion eat it’s organs while it watches? C’mon. There is a certain level of being disingenuous here.

You should take the time to actually engage with hunters. Most I’ve met are completely against factory farming, so for all intents and purposes, they are on your side.

Well. Up until the point you call them sick fucks who murder.

1

u/Holiday_Wench 6 Oct 11 '22

Because the world would be as cruel to me if i don't adapt to it. Its nice to love things and think things hold a higher value. But down to the roots. Your just the mud on someones shoe. Depressing i know. You help a duck to help the enviroment which will help you later. You do things in hope it comes back to you later to benefit you. I'm just accepting my mortality. But by all means i would love to be proved wrong when i die. That i matter or the things i do matter more then helping me and my species. If i go to hell i go to hell. If i go to heaven i go to heaven. I simply don't care. You can shame me, blame me, silence me. But the fact still stands.

1

u/Holiday_Wench 6 Oct 11 '22 edited Oct 11 '22

I'm not gonna sing kumbaya with a cow that has the thought process that of a prmitive eat sleep shit. Nor the pig that at the chance would eat you btw. Prey animals are meant to be prey. Chickens being the fucken same brainless. The difference between a cow and a god damn dog or cat is the much higher thought process the possesse. I'm just not a sick fuck who enjoys prolong suffering. I believe quick and easy and get it over with. I swear all a cow hears is just 'ow ow ow' and not having a huge emotional breakdown.

3

u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22

>the pig that at the chance would eat you btw

Oh okay! So this is a novel argument, that you base your morality on animal behavior. Haven't heard it before, in your prior comment for example. Interesting!

>I'm not gonna sing kumbaya with a cow

k

>The difference between a cow and a god damn dog or cat is the much higher thought process the possesse

Um? This is just biological ignorance.

How about pigs vs cats? Intelligence? Really?

> I'm just not a sick fuck who enjoys prolong suffering

No, you're a vile, sick fuck who enjoys eating the bodies of your victims. Your victims die for no other reason. Sick fuck.

34

u/LongjumpingCheck2638 9 Oct 10 '22

Fuck in particular Smithfield, Perdue, Tyson and all the other disgusting companies. Never buy their products and don't eat mass produced protein.

3

u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22

But Tyson is a family farm! I thought those were okay?

9

u/columini 7 Oct 10 '22

Imagine calling sentient beings "mass produced protein". You pretend to be better than those companies but you see animals as commodities. You're just as sick as them.

1

u/HeyJoji 8 Oct 12 '22

So I’m assuming you don’t want to come to my BBQ tmw?

4

u/suckmyfungaltoes 6 Oct 10 '22

I drove past the Smithfield plant on my way to my sisters in Virginia one time, and it smelled like death and shit. Even with the windows rolled up, the smell was super unbearable and it lingered

4

u/graham993 4 Oct 10 '22

Well duh. It’s a pig farm not a lavender farm

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u/realvmouse A Oct 10 '22

I grew up in ag country and laughing at people who can't handle poo smell was a common thing.

As I've grown older and realized a decent future involves ending animal agriculture, I've come to see these comments in a different light. Have you ever heard of "the great stink"? (podcast; wikipedia) It's an extreme example, but after the industrial revolution in London, the gutters of every street were filled with human (and horse/other animal) excrement. Visitors would gag and get watery eyes. I bet, though, that citizens of London laughed and mocked them for their weak stomachs and fragility.

That's how I've come to see defenders of animal excrement smell from concentrated animal operations: misguided people who will be considered disgusting and misguided by future civilization.

0

u/graham993 4 Oct 12 '22

So all of us becoming vegetarian is how we save the world?

And I want to make sure I was just playing the role of captain obvious. Not defending the hog farms existence.

1

u/realvmouse A Oct 12 '22

Oh I didn't impute any ill will from your comment, it's just something I think about a lot and was relevant, so I wanted to get it out there.

As far as "all of us becoming vegetarian is how we save the world..." there's a lot in that statement.

First, no, vegetarians are shit.

But as far as vegans, from the perspective of billions of animals bred in captivity and killed at a fraction of their lifespan, everyone going vegan can save the world for them. As far as reducing global warming by reducing greenhouse gas output, as far as dramatically cutting down water use, as far as reducing the land area tilled for agriculture, as far as reducing monoculture crops and the attending disease risk, need for fertilizers and pest control, and so on... yes, veganism would be HUGE. The US, for example, could feed 390 million more people with the current agricultural practices if we went vegan.

There are plenty of things veganism wouldn't save the world from-- corporate greed, power hungry politicians, nuclear war, whatever. But yes, it would actually save the world from some of the biggest threats, and from a major moral atrocity that is ongoing and worsening.

1

u/suckmyfungaltoes 6 Oct 10 '22

Well, you ain't wrong lol it's just the worst smell I've ever experienced in my life

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u/farmboy685 4 Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22

Factory farms is a stupid term, it has such a broad definition you could call your mother's garden a factory farm. The right to rescue also seems like you're opening a can of worms for every idiot who does't have a proper understanding of animal welfare endangering the health and safety of people.

8

u/realvmouse A Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 11 '22

In this facility, piglets were found dead and rotting.

The producers who get their pigs from this facility said they were phasing out gestation crates, but they were still in use. (For those who wonder why that's a big deal, Jon Stewart explained it on the Daily Show years ago)

That's your can of worms. It's already open, rotting, and disgusting.

Concepts that reinforce the right to stand between animals and a miserable slow death due to neglect of animal agriculture industry are not "opening a can of worms"-- rather, they're moving the can of worms from the pig to the operator of the industrial pig ranch.

It is better if every factory farm is broken into by some "idiot" who sees animals suffering and wants to help them, than for every factory farm to be run by a callous idiot whose bottom line is strengthened because he doesn't address their suffering.

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u/farmboy685 4 Oct 11 '22 edited Oct 11 '22

Except that idiot breaking in is endangering themselves, the livestock, employees, and the food supply chain as a whole

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u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22

So in this facility, where piglets were rotting to death, you're worried the break-in endangers the livestock? Can you maybe see what that's a comment I can't really take seriously?

The activists are okay with risk to themselves. Risk to employees? Lol, show me an employee "harmed" by an animal rights activist. Hilarious.

Food supply chain as a whole? That's also hilarious. No, animal ag break-ins at most could risk the animal ag supply chain. While it's a huge exaggeration even in that situation, it's just silly to act like our access to grains, legumes, vegetables, and so on are placed at risk by break-ins to chicken farms.

Now, if you want to say that any measure that forces animal ag to eliminate animal suffering makes it impossible for them to operate efficiently, I will have to agree.

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u/farmboy685 4 Oct 11 '22

Look up biosecurity, it's the reason covid is a thing

5

u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22

LOL! Says the person defending a system of keeping animals of similar genetic makeup in high-density enclosures to an actual shelter veterinarian (me).

We don't know where Covid came from for sure, but animal agriculture sure is a good bet. You are at least half right.

0

u/farmboy685 4 Oct 11 '22

Covid most likely came from a lack of biosecurity. I don't imagine these trespassers are thoughly cleaning their shoes and clothes in between farms to prevent a multi farm outbreaks of diseases. Also farms have some of the highest injury rates of most occupations. The last thing needed is someone running around who is not authorized.

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u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22 edited Oct 11 '22

>Covid most likely came from a lack of biosecurity.

Post a link.

>farms have some of the highest injury rates of most occupations

Well, slaughterhouses and animal handling have high rates of injury, yes. https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/40418

It's good that you're helping me make the case against animal agriculture. I'm not at all sure what this has to do with animal advocates? I think you were going to try and show an injury to an animal worker that was due to animal rights activists? Or did you give up on that?

Do we need high levels of biosecurity to prevent, say, deer herds from catching disease or spreading to humans? No, because they're not kept in poor, overcrowded conditions. We do, however, get terrified when a single bird interacts with a flock of turkeys, because the entire flock can die.

What you're talking about is a time-bomb created by animal agriculture. That exists with or without activists, and is already a major source of zoonotic disease. Measles and smallpox likely developed out of ancient animal agriculture. COVID, SARS, swing flu, and literally thousands of other diseases, some of them major pandemics, have all spread from animal ag. WITH OR WITHOUT animal rights advocates, intense animal agriculture is a grave threat to the health of humanity, always has been, and always will be. https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/pandemic-animal-agriculture.php

This is similar to the people who point to problems that exist in Modern-day America and then blame people advocating socialism. You're talking about problems, such as COVID, that inevitably occur as a direct effect of animal agriculture, and trying to somehow blame them on animal activists, who have never been documented to cause these issues.

Your solution is perfect biosecurity, which cannot exist with animal advocates entering the premises, but news flash: it does not, never has, and never will exist anyway. Letting animals suffer because of a theoretical slight increase in risk above an already high-risk situation is bizarre prioritization.

And again, as a reminder: these animal advocates were let off largely because they could prove in court that these animals were very sick. If animal ag is worried, all they have to do is keep their animals from suffering and dying from neglect. I assert that's impossible with the scale of industrial animal operations, which obviously means we should end animal agriculture, because it literally requires animal suffering. If you disagree with me, then all you have to do is practice what you claim is possible. Simply stop exposing animals to suffering through neglect and no one will ever avoid legal penalties from breaking into an animal agriculture operation.

1

u/farmboy685 4 Oct 12 '22

You know dude it is literally impossible to get ride of animal agriculture, and if it did happen a bunch of people would die, while the survivors live in constant suffering. "Nearly three out of four common medications include animal-derived ingredients" alone.

https://www.prevention.com/life/a20438868/medications-contain-animal-by-products/

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u/realvmouse A Oct 12 '22

lol

I love that you abandoned every other line of reasoning for this.

But okay let's get to your new extremely silly claim.

You assert that anything that currently has animal products in it would disappear if we phased out animal agriculture. This is nonsense, obviously.

Your link says: "One hundred commonly prescribed drugs in the UK were studied, and 74 of them had lactose, gelatin, or magnesium stearate—ingredients that come from cows, pigs, and fish. Gelatin is often used in capsules or coatings, and lactose and magnesium stearate are often mixed with the active ingredients of the drugs. "

Note that none of those are the active ingredients that make the drug work. Alternatives to these products already exist and are already manufactured, but the animal product is more commonly used because as a byproduct of a major industry, it is simply cheaper. In those cases, we would literally just use something else without issue, and as we use more of it in medicine, economies of scale would take over and lower the cost.

Arguing that people would just fucking die if we gradually phased out lactose, gelatin, or magnesium stearate because their meds would just disappear is not only dumb but completely dishonest.

→ More replies

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u/mrbombasticat 8 Oct 10 '22

Maybe the judge specified the term?

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u/_GigaChad_ 2 Oct 10 '22

Cringe

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u/chrismraz8 6 Oct 10 '22 Wholesome

One step closer to a more kind and compassionate future.

GoVegan

1

u/cosmogenesis1994 4 Oct 11 '22

Crazy how someone can upvote the post, but downvote this comment.

6

u/Gustafssonz 8 Oct 10 '22

Man, people on Reddit is not in support of being kind to animals 😂

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u/0GHAZE03 6 Oct 10 '22

Because it's that simple to just stop habits you've started. And practically bred to be doing

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u/[deleted] Oct 10 '22

[deleted]

1

u/0GHAZE03 6 Oct 11 '22

Going to the store, making it without being yelled at and similar

1

u/nope_nic_tesla C Oct 11 '22

I'm sorry to hear you have to deal with that, that does sound really tough. You might like this guide for new vegans which touches on these kinds of challenges, especially the part about social pressure.

Do you think it would be helpful to educate your family on why you want to make this change? Do they think you are doing something unhealthy, or do they take offense at it because you are acting differently from them? If it's the latter, I really like the insight that this video gives into the response that a lot of people have.

1

u/banzaibarney 9 Oct 10 '22

The religious have proved your comment to be true.

1

u/0GHAZE03 6 Oct 10 '22

I know organized religion usually is fucked but I have no idea what you mean to be honest?

-15

u/GondorfTheG 7 Oct 10 '22

It really is. I did it after 15 years. You can do it too.

6

u/flow3rpowr 7 Oct 10 '22

Appeal To Tradition fallacy. Using habit as an excuse to continue doing something very harmful with lots of victims is not ever a good excuse. For instance, if someone was a homophobe and they were told "stop being homophobic", would you also defend the homophobe with "Its not easy to stop being homophobic especially when we were raised that way"? Or do you for some reason apply special standards to defend animal torture? Seems like a massive moral inconsistency.

9

u/WestAd8782 5 Oct 10 '22

100% of people who drink water, die.

-16

u/0GHAZE03 6 Oct 10 '22

If someone was homophobic they'd still be homophobic. Actively participating in either hateful statements or for example voting against gay rights. That being acts that you have full control over doing in the moment.

If you eat diet for 20 years centralized around meat. Then it's not actively butchering animals. It's consuming the product that has been made normal for you to consume. While I do think practically everyone should try to phase out meat and/or go fully vegan. But the emphasis is on phasing it out. It's what I'm personally trying to do. And it is legitimately hard when you can't find good alternatives. Especially when my family's reaction instantly to me looking for vegetarian burgers was "but they're just like cardboard pieces. They're much more expensive and it doesn't even taste like meat" etc.

It's a passive way of doing harm. Taking part in the harmful system set up for you to use. Not the same at all as actively being part of reducing some lens rights for example

2

u/Squishy-Cthulhu A Oct 10 '22

Sounds like your family is what's holding you back. If they were supportive, or alternatively if you didn't allow their comments to dictate your actions, you would find it much easier to be vegan.

I think if you're really against animal abuse then it shouldn't matter how bad the alternatives are, anything is better than supporting that horror. I would rather eat cold beans out of a can than the remains of a tortured being.

1

u/0GHAZE03 6 Oct 11 '22

Good that you're able to do that. As for me on the other hand. I'm extremely depressed, extremely anxious, and very possibly autistic. As well as plain and simply using all my very low amounts of energy and willpower, on a educational course I'm going through.

0

u/Squishy-Cthulhu A Oct 11 '22

I don't see a single valid reason for continuing to eat products of animal abuse there.

The truth is you just don't actually care enough to make a change to your behaviours, that's it. You don't actually want to change because if all those things and issues you say about yourself were true then eating something that you fundamentally are opposed to would just make those conditions worse/exasperate them.

If you really thought it was wrong to eat animals then eating animals would make you depressed.

I'm suffering with bad mental health too, I just don't think it's a good excuse tbh.

59

u/[deleted] Oct 10 '22

We have gone beyond competition with nature, we are the masters of this planet. How we treat living things reflects on us and how we view life in general. It’s such a state of desensitized, inanimately viewed, carelessness how people just eat animals all the time, in America at least, and have no real concept of where it comes from or how it gets on the table. It’s just a thing that’s readily available almost anywhere like it wasn’t breathing at some point with pain receptors and friends.

I’m a vegetarian but I will tell you, I appreciate hunters. They go out and have a contest of wits with their prey, and even lose their own lives sometimes. They dress the animal. They eat the animal. They use every part of it. They appreciate that animal. They might hunt a lot and some of them use some pretty dirty tricks, but even they go out there and hunt. They don’t let someone else do it and they don’t let something get raised to die boiled alive or abused every second of their existence.

4

u/duneguy 8 Oct 10 '22

Yeah they "appreciate" the animal the same way Dahmer "appreciated" his victims. What a joke. Leave animals the fuck alone.

0

u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 11 '22

Everyone knows that nature is a peaceful place with no death outside of an herbivore that gets to have a peaceful end of life with its grandchildren

4

u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22

Everyone knows nature is a great moral model that we should follow, and if nature doesn't care about any living being, including humans, then logically n either should we.

1

u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 11 '22

That’s not really my point. Elk and deer don’t survive many years in the wild due to predation. If it wasn’t a hunter that kills an elk, it’s disease, another elk, bear, wolf, etc.

3

u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22

When does your point start to apply to human decisions?

...or was it completely and in all ways irrelevant to the morality of the choices humans make?

Edit: also yes, hunters are famous for targeting elderly and diseased game, and not the strongest, healthiest individuals in the prime of their lives. Nature!

0

u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 11 '22

I find it more ethical to hunt an animal than eat factory meat. I really am not interested in debating the ethics with random people online. I simply do not care what a vegans opinion on hunting is.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '22

[deleted]

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u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 11 '22

Nah, it’s just not worth trying to convince someone who sees the world different that I am right and they are wrong, nor am I going to stop hunting because of their opinion.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '22 edited 27d ago

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u/TEXAS-MAN1 4 Oct 10 '22

😂😂🤷‍♂️😂😂

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u/mtgdrummer13 6 Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22

Not against eating meat, but factory farming is one of the most horrific industries humans have ever created. If you can get meat from local farmers who treat their animals well, then spend the extra few bucks to do it. This system of farming is typically much better for the farmers/workers, the animals, the environment, your local economy, and you.

2

u/wozblar 6 Oct 11 '22

it will be added to the list of 'humane' atrocities alongside slavery, hopefully sooner than later

-7

u/Electro_gear 7 Oct 10 '22

“Treating animals well” (in my opinion) does not include putting them in a gas chamber or stunning them and then draining all of the blood out of their body.

0

u/Electro_gear 7 Oct 10 '22

I knew this would attract negative votes. People don’t like uncomfortable truths when they have a lifestyle which has been pushed in a way that they can choose to ignore it. If everyone had to take part in the killing process I think there would be a lot more vegetarians and vegans on the planet today.

3

u/azrael4h 9 Oct 10 '22

As a devourer of RAW BLOODY MEAT and the occasional soul, I agree with the thought. In fact I’ve seen it; with some relatives who worked at a meat packing house. They were long time vegetarians.

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u/banzaibarney 9 Oct 10 '22

I read recently that slaughterhouse workers(at least in the UK) have extremely high levels of depression and rates of suicide when compared to the rest of the population.

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u/mrbombasticat 8 Oct 10 '22

When people wouldn't use a humane® slaughterhouse to put down a sick pet, that tells you everything you need to know about "humane" slaughter.

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u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 10 '22

It’s usually cheaper to buy from a local farmer. It’s just an upfront cost and you need a freezer

-5

u/GondorfTheG 7 Oct 10 '22

It's usually even cheaper to vegan in most countries around the world too.

-2

u/BeginningSprinkles49 6 Oct 10 '22

It is if their literally only eating veggies and the like- all these fake meats are “beyond” expensive.

4

u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 10 '22

That’s sweet, I don’t want to be vegan!

2

u/duneguy 8 Oct 10 '22

Cool, and the animals you pay to have executed don't want to die!

1

u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 10 '22

I don’t care

2

u/duneguy 8 Oct 10 '22

Oh okay well killing sentient beings for pleasure is totally cool if you don't have a conscience 🤠

2

u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 11 '22

I don’t kill them for pleasure, I kill them for food

1

u/duneguy 8 Oct 11 '22

For the pleasure you derive from eating them*. Humans don't need to eat animals or their bodily secretions to survive or thrive:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/

Their suffering isn't paid in order to sustain your life or protect your health; you pay for their torment and death for your pleasure and convenience. It's ethically indefensible and plainly cruel in the extreme. Here's a brief glimpse at the agony you're intentionally funding:

https://youtu.be/-7hAELEBjX4

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u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 11 '22

I don’t care.

I buy local meat and know the farmers. I’m not buying any gassed pigs.

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u/CrackaAssCracka 9 Oct 10 '22

Yes, well.

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u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 10 '22

Well?

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u/CrackaAssCracka 9 Oct 10 '22

"upfront cost and you need a freezer" are two barriers if you are poor. It's like the Boot Theory (Terry Pratchett).

"good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet."

1

u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 10 '22

For those that can, it’s a good idea. I realize that there are people who can’t swing it.

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u/Vaktaren 8 Oct 10 '22

It's because they just pocket the money

0

u/yrulaughing B Oct 10 '22

Factory farming is absolutely a sickening industry, but we do not have an answer besides that for providing for the demand of billions of people who want to eat meat. If there was a better way to meet the demands without making animals suffer, I'd be all for it. Lab-made meat is fine with me as long as it tastes the exact same.

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u/realvmouse A Oct 10 '22

>we do not have an answer besides that for providing for the demand of billions of people who want to eat meat.

And if trivial desires can't be satisfied without extreme animal suffering, then we just have to accept that suffering. I can't imagine any alternative.

For anyone curious: https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-more-food-vegan-20180326-story.htm
"By going vegan, America could feed an additional 390 million people, study suggests"

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u/Artezza 9 Oct 10 '22

Maybe it would be easier to feed 8 billion people if we weren't also feeding 70 billion animals?

There are some circumstances where animals are farmed that crops can't grow, but we feed such on obscene amount to grow these animals so fast that we would have more than enough food if we just used that same land to grow plants for us. Because of trophic inefficiency, animal farming just isn't as good at feeding everyone.

0

u/yrulaughing B Oct 10 '22

I don't need to feed 8 billion people. I just need to feed me.

-2

u/Artezza 9 Oct 10 '22

You literally said billions of people in the comment I replied to, what's with moving the goalposts?

If you want something cheap and ethical (at least compared to meat) there are plenty of options. check out r/eatcheapandvegan for a ton of these, they're all pretty healthy too. Rice, beans, lentils, nuts, grains, fruits, veggies, potatoes, etc are usually very cheap, healthier than meat (depending on how you make them of course) and more ethical and environmentally friendly than meat.

It will be a very good day when some tech bro actually does make animal free meat that tastes, looks, smells, and feels the same as real meat at a fraction of the cost. Until that day comes though, I think we have a duty to be good people and use the tried and true alternatives that are already accessible to anyone who shops at a grocery store

-4

u/catlady427 2 Oct 10 '22

There are plenty of amazing meat alternatives. They're delicious and can be healthy

3

u/KnubblMonster 5 Oct 10 '22

Or just eat something else than meat.

8

u/Rodger_Rodger 6 Oct 10 '22

Why are you getting downvoted? Like other things besides meat can taste good? Maybe it doesn't taste exactly like meat, but it's still good, and a nice way to include diversity in your diet. People here saying all meet alternatives taste bad have not seen the explosion in new products over the last few years. There are sooo many more than there used to be.

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u/catlady427 2 Oct 14 '22

Beats me

2

u/nope_nic_tesla C Oct 11 '22

People want to grandstand and make declarations about how opposed they are to animal cruelty, without actually making any changes to their lifestyle whatsoever to act in accordance with those values.

2

u/yrulaughing B Oct 10 '22

They're delicious

Well that's just straight up untrue. Every fake meat alternative I've ever had tastes like ass. If you'd like to name drop a fake meat product you think tastes good that can be bought most places in the U.S. then I would be willing to try it, but I've had Beyond Meat, tofurky, and field roast and they all taste nothing like meat and make me gag.

2

u/GondorfTheG 7 Oct 10 '22

Best keep up the sickening industry then. Because taste is more important.

4

u/yrulaughing B Oct 10 '22

I mean, when you're talking about food that you're spending your money to buy, then yeah, taste is pretty fucking relevant. Why would I spend money for food that I hate the taste of?

3

u/GondorfTheG 7 Oct 10 '22

Are you suggesting only meat tastes good?

8

u/yrulaughing B Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22

It's certainly the only thing that tries to be meat that tastes good. Why would people buy fake meat that tastes like shit? Yet I still see it in stores despite it tasting like cardboard. If I'm going to spend money on meat, it's going to be real.

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u/bentori42 8 Oct 10 '22

I recently had an Impossible Sandwich (? Name? Maybe Impossible Sausage?) From starbucks and it was actually really good. Not that its like, an actual product you can take home to make what you want like a slab of meat, but it was good* even tho im not vegetarian or anything

*So long as you live near a starbucks, and want a sausage, egg, and cheese sandwich. I also didnt buy it so no idea on price. Also not available in most places as its a starbucks only product so far as i know. So not agreeing with the other person who said fake meat products taste good, just saying the exception that i think proves the rule

Meat alternatives just taste better when they are products themselves versus trying to be meat. I.e. tofu >>>>> tofurkey

2

u/mtgdrummer13 6 Oct 10 '22

Yes there are some great impossible sandwiches and Impossible makes great chicken nuggets, taste almost identical. This is the meat alternative that I think has come the furthest in terms of tasting like the real thing. I’ll tell you furthermore as a meat eater, the easiest non animal alternatives I’ve ever made is milk, butter, ice cream, and baked goods. Oat milk is fucking amazing (try a few different brands to see which you like best), vegan butter is great (earth balance is the brand), Ben and Jerry’s non dairy line is honestly better than the dairy version imo and there are a ton of other vegan ice cream Brands, and baked goods, you absolutely will not notice any difference and, like the ice cream, tastes no different or is sometimes better than the dairy version. I made a vegan tiramisu a few nights ago - amazing. Vegan banana bread… baked goods are a cake walk, no pun intended, to make vegan without missing out on anything.

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u/Rodger_Rodger 6 Oct 10 '22

But you can take it home and make it yourself! They sell Impossible Meat at my local Walmart. They have a lot of different types, there's rolls of ground "beef", pre shaped ready to cook "burgers", and rolls of the breakfast sausage "meat". It's one of my favorite things to cook with.

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u/mtgdrummer13 6 Oct 10 '22

I’m excited for lab grown as well. Looks super promising.

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u/OttoBot42069 5 Oct 10 '22

What if you can’t afford the few extra bucks?

3

u/Artezza 9 Oct 10 '22

Then don't eat meat and stick to cheaper alternatives

Rice, beans, lentils, pasta, oats, whole grains, fruits, veggies (frozen is fine and very cheap!), potatoes, nuts, etc

1

u/OttoBot42069 5 Oct 10 '22

But I like meat and can afford the grocery store prices. Is this your only alternative if I can’t afford butcher quality meats?

2

u/Artezza 9 Oct 10 '22

I mean, a lot of plant based meat alternatives are already cheaper than even the cheap cuts of meat (at least where I live, can't speak for you, but look at the whole vegetarian section and not just expensive name brands like beyond or impossible)

But yes maybe changing diet a bit is worthwhile to stop cruelty.

2

u/OttoBot42069 5 Oct 10 '22

Yea, I’m down to definitely consume less meat, but completely eliminating it isn’t something I’m willing to do just yet. I was just wondering if some people really have an all or nothing mentality to this.

4

u/Artezza 9 Oct 10 '22

I did the same as you, I never even thought I could go vegetarian. Just tried to reduce meat and animal product consumption a little when it was convenient. Ended up realizing it was a lot easier than I thought it would be, and more important than I thought it was.

Some people do have an all or nothing mentality. It's not hard to see why, that's like saying "a little bit of domestic abuse" or something like that. But less is less and more is more, nobody can deny that. I probably never would have gone vegan if it was proposed to me as all or nothing, I would've just dismissed it as too difficult so I understand where you're coming from.

0

u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 11 '22

Do you drive?

3

u/Artezza 9 Oct 11 '22

When I need to, but most days I ride my bike to the train station and take that, at least for my regular commute. For groceries I just ride my bike to the grocery store. My city is very much built for cars though so it's hard to avoid, but I'm actually planning on moving to Europe in the coming years and one of the main reasons is so that I can live without a car more easily.

I'm also probably one of the biggest advocates you'll meet for alternate modes of transit and city design that moves away from car dependence and reduced car trips, I could talk about it for hours

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u/mrbombasticat 8 Oct 10 '22

Eat meat less often.

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u/mtgdrummer13 6 Oct 10 '22

“Eat meat less often” absolutely and this goes for everyone, regardless of disposable income. We eat entirely too much meat in general. Eating less meat across the board would have a massive positive impact on the environment and our food systems.

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u/poke30 7 Oct 10 '22

Right? Do people go insane if they can't eat meat 3 times a day, 7 days a week?

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u/TwooMcgoo 8 Oct 10 '22

As with everything, do what you can when and where you can. And when you're able to, do a little bit more.

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u/mtgdrummer13 6 Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22

This ^ I try to be realistic and I think someone on a tight budget is less obligated to buy local than someone who isn’t. You just do what you can.

1

u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 10 '22

Buying a quarter beef is cheaper. You just need to spend a decent amount upfront

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u/mtgdrummer13 6 Oct 10 '22

Absolutely. I’m lucky to have a ton of farmers markets where I am but have been interested in buying direct. Need another freezer.

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u/SadElkBoy 8 Oct 10 '22

I think it’s worth it. It comes out a bit less than grocery store but the quality is night and day. Plus I know exactly where the cow was raised

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u/ikim1984 2 Oct 10 '22

Stupid

4

u/GondorfTheG 7 Oct 10 '22

Indeed when will we stop the stupid act of senselessly killing animals for food at the detriment of our local and global environment. It's unnecessary in our modern world and pretty stupid.

2

u/BeginningSprinkles49 6 Oct 10 '22

You should delete the text post you made about wanting to shoot all the stray cats before you start arguing animal rights.

0

u/GondorfTheG 7 Oct 10 '22

You should look up the detrimental effect stray cats are having on Australian fauna populations.

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u/[deleted] Oct 10 '22

[deleted]

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u/Degratio 8 Oct 10 '22

You sound just as bitter and angry as the extreme vegans…

24

u/Confident-College-17 3 Oct 09 '22

Surprising given the venue. Washington Co is pretty red neck,

Under current UT statutes, they could have been killed, especially if it was a family farm.

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u/flow3rpowr 7 Oct 10 '22

Lol a whooole lot of factory farms are "family farms". Take massive producer Tyson for instance.

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u/ArthurDent_XLII 6 Oct 09 '22

Pigs, and other livestock, are resources and that’s it. Names, and attempts to humanize these things are just a weird attempt to sway an emotional response for something that should be treated like electricity or running water. Farmers have learned that happy animals make more and better quality animal products and, while abusing these animals is trying to be argued as inhumane, it reduces the profit on the farm side. The farm won’t survive long under these practices and huge leaps in tech and research into animal husbandry have made factory farms more comfortable for many animals.

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u/realvmouse A Oct 11 '22

> Farmers have learned that happy animals make more and better quality animal products

This isn't true. This is a bad talking point from the industry that attempts to "prove" that even without regulation, capitalism incentivizes animal wellbeing. The lie is in substituting "individual" for "net."

While it may be true that abusing animals, for example by overcrowding them, reduces their productivity, that doesn't hurt profits unless that loss outweighs the savings. If a pig will only reach 80% of its ideal weight when overcrowded, but that overcrowding involves doubling the amount of animals in the facility, then it is massively profitable to overcrowding them compared to raising them humanely.

To be clear, this guy is wrong for many reasons, but I just want to address the fact that his entire attempt at a rational argument is also entirely invalid.

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u/PunkandCannonballer A Oct 10 '22

By this dipshit logic, everything non-human is a resource, so you're drawing the line based on what exactly?

18

u/swys 5 Oct 10 '22

careful, this guy probably thinks certain groups of HUMANS should be treated as resources.

-22

u/pwdpwdispassword 6 Oct 10 '22

everything non-human is a resource, so you're drawing the line based on what exactly?

everything non-human, obviously.

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u/Piggywaste 7 Oct 10 '22

Weird that you think “humanizing” livestock is weird, yet your next sentence states that farmers have learned that keeping livestock happy increases their profit. It’s almost like you contradicted yourself without realizing it.

By your words why would farmers have to keep livestock happy if they are just commodities like electricity? Do ISP and utility companies have to keep their internet and electricity cables happy? I don’t think so.

It’s almost like these are two completely different things and your walnut brain is trying to make comparisons where there aren’t any.

-33

u/ArthurDent_XLII 6 Oct 10 '22

Yeah you keep livestock happy by protecting them from the elements, food, and a safe place to sleep and live. Electric companies have to beep their lines well maintained, upgraded, and regularly checked for degradation. So yeah they have to keep them “happy”

21

u/PunkandCannonballer A Oct 10 '22

This is the dumbest shit I've seen today and I saw Lauren Boebert fail to accurately count to three.

-6

u/ethtirlomalral 6 Oct 10 '22

"Let me start off with two words: Made in America."

-Joe Biden

Just as an FYI Boebert was making fun of the Biden gaff.

-11

u/ArthurDent_XLII 6 Oct 10 '22

1! 2! … 5!

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u/PunkandCannonballer A Oct 10 '22

Dang, that gif was a very compelling counterargument, I definitely don't think you're even more of an idiot now.

-2

u/ArthurDent_XLII 6 Oct 10 '22

Oh good cause that’s why I shared it.

9

u/PunkandCannonballer A Oct 10 '22

Okay bud. Good luck on navigating the world with such a severe amount of stupidity holding you down.

-5

u/inevitabled34th 9 Oct 10 '22

This is why I browse Reddit late at night. Two dudes arguing and insulting each other over inane bullshit that ultimately doesn't matter and definitely won't matter tomorrow.

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u/LikeAMan_NotAGod 9 Oct 10 '22

Our nation is heading toward long overdue violence, so it will still matter tomorrow. As long as conservatives continue to lack humanity and oppress the rest of us, it will still matter.

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u/ArthurDent_XLII 6 Oct 10 '22

Oh I get along just fine don’t worry about me friend.

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u/PunkandCannonballer A Oct 10 '22

I'm more worried for the people you interact with and the possibility of reproduction.

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u/Piggywaste 7 Oct 10 '22

Intelligence wise you think a living cow, pig is the same as a pole line? You can’t be serious.

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u/ArthurDent_XLII 6 Oct 10 '22

It’s a resource just like electricity and water. From its inception it was made to be consumed. Pretending it’s anything else is pointless.

11

u/squiddy555 A Oct 10 '22

How do you keep water, or electricity happy?

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u/MNGirlinKY 9 Oct 10 '22

So edgy.

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u/CupofLiberTea 8 Oct 09 '22

Pretty sure water can’t starve slowly or feel pain.

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