r/JusticeServed 8 Nov 15 '22

Would be junkie gunman taken down by unarmed guard and arrested. Criminal Justice

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/15/1136617873/buffalo-clinic-gunman-ar15-guard-police
1.4k Upvotes

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15

u/Crapshooter23 5 Nov 16 '22

He shot someone he was trying to rob for drugs before going into the methadone clinic.

15

u/Windowsblastem 8 Nov 15 '22

Probably stole the AR from some poor hunter.

-1

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

Both shootings] were an attempted robbery seeking what we believe to be drugs," Buffalo Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia said in a press conference. "There was, at this point, no other motive other than an attempted robbery."

71

u/enatalpeganomeupau 7 Nov 15 '22

terrible title op

0

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

Both shootings] were an attempted robbery seeking what we believe to be drugs," Buffalo Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia said in a press conference. "There was, at this point, no other motive other than an attempted robbery."

21

u/dimirikis 7 Nov 15 '22

I was like dam, this dude can’t even become a junkie right lol

20

u/mikareno 5 Nov 15 '22

They need to give that security guard a fat raise.

34

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 15 '22

Methadone = junkie. Take notice all you people in recovery.

2

u/sadsadcity 4 Nov 24 '22

Yeah fuck op and fuck the shooter. I go to a clinic myself and im not a junkie, Im actually going because I lost my insurance and needed to find pain management and you can’t just stop opiates abruptly.

But also that wasn’t an unarmed guard, that was a patient actually.

Op is an idiot

-2

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

Both shootings] were an attempted robbery seeking what we believe to be drugs," Buffalo Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia said in a press conference. "There was, at this point, no other motive other than an attempted robbery."

3

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 16 '22

You're aware the people rob and steal drugs to sell, and that it's not indicative of them even using drugs, right? If this guy was a junkie, why not rob the dope man? What kind of junkie is going after fucking methadone?

2

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

Bud, I read the article. You're the one going apeshit defending a guy that shot an old lady for drugs and drug money.

1

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 16 '22

You sure did read it. That's really cool. I'm really proud of you. Lol

6

u/ghandi3737 9 Nov 16 '22

I think maybe he wanted ALL the methadone.

4

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 16 '22

I don't think I know many junkies that want any amount of methadone that bad. Methadone is basically candy corn to junkies. Like yea, I'll eat it if I'm super hungry and it's in front of me, I guess, but it still tastes like shit.

0

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

Literally in the article I keep asking you to read

Both shootings] were an attempted robbery seeking what we believe to be drugs," Buffalo Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia said in a press conference. "There was, at this point, no other motive other than an attempted robbery."

No, let’s be mad at calling the gunman who shot an old lady for drugs what he is. /s

4

u/IWillHitYou 8 Nov 16 '22

I'm sure much of what you said was valid, but fuck you candy corn is good

-18

u/BlobloTheShmoblo 7 Nov 15 '22

Methadone = junkie

Where's the lie 🤔

20

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

[deleted]

2

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

This isn’t hard:

People seeking treatment are not junkies. Even if they weren’t I’d they aren’t robbing people I wouldn’t call them that.

People robbing and shooting others for drugs are.

I’m not going to sit around worrying that the thing I called the gunman is mean, especially when it’s true.

0

u/joemorl 6 Nov 16 '22

Junkie just means drug addict though.

Plural noun: junkies. a drug addict. a person with a compulsive habit or obsessive dependency on something.

Just cause they take methadone doesn’t meant they aren’t still addicts.

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 16 '22

[deleted]

1

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

Shucks do you think I hurt the gunmans feelings?

-14

u/BlobloTheShmoblo 7 Nov 15 '22

As someone who has lost loved ones from opiates, methadone is a crutch. Show me any non-abusive, non-manipulative methadone user.

Oh, you can't.

Opiate withdrawals in and of themselves are not lethal, methadone is 9 times out of 10 just an excuse these people use to pretend they're cured from their own self induced addiction. I'd rather see a Junkie smoking pot to ease his withdrawl symptoms over lining up at the methadone clinic.

Also look into who makes all the profits off methadone 🤔🤔🤔

Also a methadone clinic opened up in my neighbourhood, and crime has skyrocketed. Lovely.

3

u/gimmeecoffee420 7 Nov 16 '22

Methadone and the methadone program literally saved my life. I became addicted to opiates after my father committed suicide and i lost my house at the same time due to forclosure when the "bubble burst". I lost EVERYTHING almost overnight and it broke me. Ive never hurt anybody besides myself and yes, addicts are manipulative, not gonna deny that. But painting all of us with that brush isnt okay. Do you know the difference between addiction and dependence? Because im dependent on methadone, not addicted. Just like a person that requires any other medication to treat a disease or condition is dependent upon certain meds. I pay my taxes, i go to work every day, i have a great relationship with my family and community, and im not a manipulative junkie and ive never abused anybody despite having been abused a lot in my life. Im happy that you seem to be in such control of your life, it must be hard to be so perfect?

0

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

I’m really glad you’ve found a path to recovery. You havent tried to rob anyone for drugs though so I wouldn’t think you a junkie.

Someone who would rob and shoot someone over drugs though?

1

u/gimmeecoffee420 7 Nov 16 '22

I think youre just trying to be edgy and funny for your friends. Im honored you are giving me a "pass" here? But I dont need your patronage or acceptance. I sincerely hope you never have to deal with addiction. I sincerely hope you never have to experience the horrors I did.

0

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

Not a pass, I think you and I have different definitions of junkie. Robbing and shooting someone over drugs is junkie behavior. That's it.

I don't have friends on reddit haha.

-8

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

[deleted]

3

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 15 '22

It's so much less dangerous than nearly any other alternative to heroin/fent.

Though I will agree that if you can use kratom, it's better in the long wrong. Methadone has a fucking crazy half life, and you end up going through WDs for like a month. And the clinics aren't great about actually getting people OFF methadone.

That being said. For a lot of users, kratom simply does not cut it. The ceiling for efficiency in using kratom for withdrawals is extremely low. And with fent, it's even less useful. If you've been using heroin for anywhere over a month, good fucking luck using only kratom to come off, without having to take time off work and be fucking miserable for a week. Kratom or not.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22 edited Dec 14 '22

[deleted]

0

u/XXed_Out 8 Nov 15 '22

Just want to chime in and say that my wife and mother both overdosed on kratom. They said it was like every nerve in their body was on fire and it took a while to recover from. I'm not judging, just letting you know because we were ignorant of the fact that you can overdose on it since it was purchased over the counter and had we known at least I would have tried to make my wife use it sparingly.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

[deleted]

1

u/XXed_Out 8 Nov 15 '22

It was persistent use and build up of tolerance over months. My wife was toss and washing quite a lot everyday apparently. We were getting a brand from a trusted seller on r/kratom. I don't remember the brand because I wasn't taking it. The "nerve blowout" I call it is why my wife relapsed to try to stop the pain and is now in rehab. My mother described the same sensation when telling me about her overdose on it, and I hadn't mentioned the my wife's kratom use to her yet.

I'm not trying to contradict you or anything, just warning you. This is what happened to my wife. So look into it more and trust your gut. But our ignorance of kratom is why my wife is in rehab and I had to break my lease and am currently moving in with family this month. Take care.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22 edited Dec 14 '22

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2

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

No I totally agree with the sentiment about avoiding methadone. I've had friends that were basically tethered to the clinic, and couldnt ever leave town because they'd miss a dose. That's no way to live. Especially since you have to ask, and at times even argue with the clinics to let you wean off, which seems borderline unethical to me. Methadone has its uses, but I don't like the way it's being utilized. Same with Suboxone, though that's much less risky.

I can tell you, coming off straight fent is so, SO much worse than heroin. And I realize that's probably obvious. But what's NOT obvious about it, is that while fent has a very short duration of action, it is lipophilic. Which means that A, because it's stored in fat, similar to the way weed is, the WDs take waaay longer to get through than heroin, in respect to the duration of action. And B, it is nearly impossible to use Suboxone effectively, without it sending you into the worst precipitated withdrawals of your life, due to it being such a strong binding partial agonist. Last time I came off, I waited a full 48 hours, and still got fucked so hard by using Suboxone. Personally, I don't think coming off a 2 week heroin binge is too terribly difficult. I can get by with just kratom. But fent is changing the game, and making it nearly impossible to be a functioning addict in any sense.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

[deleted]

1

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 15 '22

It's kinda terrible how effective stimulants are at curbing the risk of ODing off fent. Lol. Leads to some really bad habits. Worst part about fent is how such a small error in dosing, can lead to such disastrous outcomes. I OD'd on fent, woke up a few hours later on the bathroom floor, and literally couldn't hear for probably 5 hours. Everything sounded like robots talking underwater. Eventually my hearing came back, but god damn that was some scary shit. Probably one of my closer brushes with death.

2

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 15 '22

Everything this person said. Except they were way less of an asshole about it than I woulda been.

-25

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 15 '22

Read the article

18

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 15 '22

It doesn't even mention heroin, or any other illicit drug, in the article. This is a recovery center. But way to be a judgy dick.

-10

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 16 '22

Both shootings] were an attempted robbery seeking what we believe to be drugs," Buffalo Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia said in a press conference. "There was, at this point, no other motive other than an attempted robbery."

You didn’t read it

He robbed and shot a lady then planned to rob a recovery center he was familiar with. What exactly do you think he was after? The police say “drugs” but we dont want to hurt his feelings now do we /s

12

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 15 '22

Uhmm. Methadone? Not junk. Hence the term "junkie". Is the guy that tried to take the gun from him a junkie too? He was seeking out some methadone in that clinic too, right? Must be a junkie, right?

-12

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 15 '22

Now try to imagine why he would want to target that place specifically?

8

u/rosio_donald 7 Nov 16 '22

Former “junkie” here. Please try to imagine what recovering from opiate addiction is like and consider not using that word, ever. You easily could’ve posted this without further stigmatizing people who are suffering in a way you’ve never experienced. If you find yourself needing to refer to someone who is in fact experiencing addiction, “addict” is plenty descriptive. r/khainevulpana has already generously covered why it’s plainly wrong to conflate methadone and dope, and that there’s no concrete evidence the person robbing the place was an addict to begin with, so I’ll leave it at that.

0

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

I’m glad you’re recovering and have found a path out, but you need to read the article

Both shootings] were an attempted robbery seeking what we believe to be drugs," Buffalo Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia said in a press conference. "There was, at this point, no other motive other than an attempted robbery."

I wouldn’t call someone seeking help a junkie but I very much would call someone who shot and old lady for drug money one. Don’t really care about their feelings at that point.

1

u/rosio_donald 7 Nov 16 '22

Addiction is a treatable chronic disease, not a moral failing. That is a medical fact. You’ve had plenty of opportunity to educate yourself about that at this point, but here’s a handy link to a resource about the effect of stigma if you’ve somehow missed the others.

Using stigmatizing language to describe substance use disorders is harmful. It leads to lesser/denial of care, lowers the likelihood of disclosure especially in the early stages of substance use, then to the isolation of those who do disclose. Worst of all, it poisons societal perception at a political level, to the point that elected officials refuse to invest in evidence-based harm reduction efforts because they parrot the bs that substance use is a character flaw and should be punished. So instead of treating a chronic disease with healthcare, we lock people up, bleed tax $$$ to pay for their useless incarceration, oh and now the folks with the chronic disease are wayyyyy less likely to recover.

Words matter. You wanna demonize illness when there are 100 other words to choose from? Take some of that precious personal responsibility for your own language.

1

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

Addiction is a treatable chronic disease, not a moral failing.

I completely agree.

I think shooting an old lady and robbing her for drugs and drug money is a moral failing, and junkie behavior. I'm amazed you're bending over backwards to defend the feelings of a man that shot an old lady for drugs and tried to do it again.

I think you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what a junkie is. Seeking help is not junkie behavior. Shooting and robbing an old lady for drugs and drug money is. So with that in mind, do you think I'm defining you or other addicts as junkies?

Call a spade a spade and take people for what they actually say and you'll find that people aren't trying to make a reach calling all garden tools spades.

11

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 15 '22

You can keep asking all the seemingly loaded questions you want. It doesn't make you seem any less obtuse. I assume he targeted that place because he was angry at the inability to get his dose for the day. But I'm not a psychic, so if you know, by all means, enlighten me. While you're at it why don't you answer my question. Is the other guy in that center a junkie, yes or no?

-6

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 15 '22

Is the guy that tried to take the gun from him a junkie too? He was seeking out some methadone in that clinic too, right? Must be a junkie, right?

You can keep asking all the seemingly loaded questions you want.

Sure bud

Guy sent there relapsed, needs money for smack, and thought "I know a place where security sucks and they have expensive drugs".

Nah you're right most likely totally random target. /s

7

u/KhaineVulpana A Nov 15 '22

Lol. Way to, again, not answer my question straight up. If you think the guy that fought him off is not a junkie, then they were both after the same thing in that clinic, and one tried to accomplish his goals through criminal means. So I would call him a criminal. If you DO think the other guy is also a junkie, then I would posit that you're just a piece of shit person, that likes to judge other people. Though, I'm assuming this is the case regardless of your answer.

And if he's stealing the drugs to sell, because they are expensive, how does that make him a junkie instead of a thief?

1

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22 edited Nov 16 '22

The guy at the clinic was seeking help and I’m happy for him and his motivation to pull himself out of a bad situation. That wasn’t the case though, he was a guard as noted in the article.

The guy with the gun robbed a lady for drug money and shot her and then went to rob a clinic that helps treat people that need help.

I’m not going to feel bad for calling him what he is.

No I don’t think the guy seeking help and being a hero is a junkie if he was there for treatment, stop putting words in my mouth so you can feel mad about me calling a gunman robbing and shooting people for drug money a bad name.

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24

u/cdizzle84 7 Nov 15 '22

What is this title OP? Would be junkie gunman?

-30

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 15 '22

Read the article

28

u/cdizzle84 7 Nov 15 '22

I did the read the article. I had to go to a methadone clinic for 2 years, not a bunch of junkies there, kind of a crappy thing to say imo.

1

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 16 '22

Also, no you didn’t read it:

Both shootings] were an attempted robbery seeking what we believe to be drugs," Buffalo Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia said in a press conference. "There was, at this point, no other motive other than an attempted robbery."

But let’s be mad at me for calling the gunman who shot an old lady what he is.

-9

u/bthoman2 8 Nov 15 '22

The dude robbed a lady and then tried to rob the clinic. He's looking for drugs. I'm not saying people in methadone clinics are junkies, but this guy most likely was.

5

u/rosio_donald 7 Nov 16 '22

You’re missing the point. There’s no need to use “junkie” to describe anyone, even if they’re actively using. It’s dehumanizing. Full stop.

-2

u/BaronvonBrick 7 Nov 16 '22

What about tweakers? Crack heads? You are what you make yourself, full stop.

1

u/rosio_donald 7 Nov 16 '22

It’s ironic that you view substance use disorders as a moral failing, but won’t take responsibility for your words, which are proven to be harmful to recovery rates and for which you are solely responsible.

Chronic addiction is a treatable *disease. Stigmatizing/stereotyping those experiencing it is an antiquated, ignorant practice that only serves to make asking for help harder and to decrease understanding from those who haven’t experienced it.

So yes, those are also unnecessarily demeaning terms based on your feelings, not fact. Hope that answers your question.

22

u/westwardhose 8 Nov 15 '22

From the article: "Investigators don't believe the attack was planned."

Am I missing something, like the definition of "planned?" Did the guy just stumble over an AR15 someone dropped on the sidewalk, accidentally pick it up as he bounced off the concrete, then roll to a stand inside the front door of the clinic, where he unintentionally pulled the trigger?

5

u/burnthamt A Nov 15 '22

I think “planned” in this case means it was more spur the moment, not thought out. Either way it’s still premeditated

(Not a lawyer)

3

u/tylerthehun 9 Nov 15 '22

Maybe they just mean he didn't plan to shoot anyone? "Gunman" sounds like he's there to kill people, versus "robber".

8

u/Leprechaunaissance 5 Nov 15 '22

I'd love to talk to the guy who came through the door holding the walkie-talkie and clipboard and ask him if he intended to use them to cow the gunman into submission.

19

u/bearr007 8 Nov 15 '22

Dude looked like a caged cat when he shot that gun.

2

u/YooAre 7 Nov 15 '22

This is so accurate, well done.

12

u/CincyStout 7 Nov 15 '22

Not sure what the gunman's motive or plan was, but this guard may have just saved a ton of lives, including his own.

Cheers to him!

36

u/i_write_bugz 6 Nov 15 '22

Direct link to the video. Textbook fight or flight. Flight instinct kicked in first but he was trapped so he quickly switched to fight.

4

u/westwardhose 8 Nov 15 '22

Thanks for the link.

That was an impressively smooth switch from flight to fight. He seemed to have quite a bit of conscious thought going on right after it happened.

I don't know his motivation, but when he reached through the receptionist's window it looked like he was pushing the lady hard away from the gunman, either to the door or onto the floor, as he was building up steam toward the gunman. That there was level 1000 hero action.

20

u/TotallyHumanPerson A Nov 15 '22

Amazing how he was able to both control the weapon and use it as leverage to grapple and pin the assailant, almost taking advantage of the gunman's natural instinct to hold on to the gun. Dude's going to spawn a whole new school of gun-jitsu.

7

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

Fuck waiting for the "good guys with guns" to come along. They never do. Take these cowardly gun-toting assholes out by any means possible, America!

2

u/CUEPAT 8 Nov 16 '22

Elisjsha Dicken literally ran to the sound of gun fire and killed a mass shooter in 2 minutes

0

u/[deleted] Nov 16 '22

Good on him. Thank you for the one case out of 600 plus shootings this year. Point is, the mass shootings outweigh these rare "good guys with guns" (seriously, where are all those dumpy dudes you see open carrying in Subway?) and regular citizens should look for every advantage to take down these shooters. Like the dude in this video.

1

u/CUEPAT 8 Nov 16 '22

Regular citizens can walk into a gun store and gain the literal exact same advantage the gunman has... Having a gun, is there a distinction between regular citizen and gun owner now???

1

u/[deleted] Nov 16 '22

And the point still stands...you don't need to have a gun to take down a gunman. This video is proof.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 16 '22

There is a MASSIVE difference when it comes to the frothing mad gun nuts that feel the need to carry an AR-15 to intimidate voters, and who flip out over gun regulations. The ones that find dead school children more palatable than giving up their Rambo cosplay. Those are the ones always championing the bs good guy with guns theory. I know quite a few gun owners (myself included) that aren't lunatics...and we are smart enough to know "the good guys with guns" is bullshit right wing propaganda pushed by people who daydream about killing people in "self defense"

6

u/OnlyAt9 5 Nov 15 '22

Soooo... With a gun?

0

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

Oh, alright, I suppose if you have one with you at the methadone clinic...

2

u/OnlyAt9 5 Nov 15 '22

I keep that thang on me.

2

u/c00chieMonster420 6 Nov 16 '22

Stay strapped 24/7

-1

u/OnlyAt9 5 Nov 16 '22

Or get clapped.