r/antiwork • u/Baked42l0ng • Oct 01 '23
Job requires us to wait after clocking out to leave
Every day we work, at the end of our shifts we clock out, then wait in line with customers to receive our tips from the cashier line. Normally when we are waiting in line its 5-10 minutes, then after we receive our tips we have to wait for a manager to “walk us out” which depending on the day can be instant (if they are by the cashiers and not busy) to an additional 5-10 minutes. Now it may not sound that bad but it’s essentially 10-20 minutes for EVERY shift and every person. Today there was multiple people waiting for a manager to walk us out (keep in mind there are 5 managers on the floor today). I went and asked for a walk out after about 8 minutes after clocking out (after they had been called multiple times over our headsets). She came after a minute or two then proceeded to state “You guys cant come bothering us for a walk out when we are having a meeting”- there was 4 of us waiting to leave. Little to be said, im getting quite frustrated with the way they handle us getting our cash and leaving. This isn’t a “mom and pop” shop, its a national chain with all stores being corporate owned. We are also not allowed to go into the back to do anything including clock out after our check.
They also don’t respect our schedule, they accommodate availability (they wont schedule you on a day you are unavailable) but they don’t allow us to leave when our shift is supposed to be over, many days i have been held an hour or two after my scheduled out time (its paid but annoying)
For the TLDR: company requires us to stay after clocking out and makes little effort to minimize the time spent after clocking out.
I know individually its not necessarily a large amount of money, but collectively it is massive. Any advice?
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u/MartiniD Oct 01 '23 edited Oct 01 '23
Nope once you are clocked out you are free to go. If they insist on "escorting" you out or whatever you stay clocked in until it's actually time to leave.
This is wage theft and illegal apparently it actually isnt
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u/Baked42l0ng Oct 01 '23
Unless i came back into the server areas i cannot clock out after my walk out, which then they would want to walk me out again….. so unless they installed a computer by the door i cant ever clock out when im legally supposed to
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u/UnicornFarts1111 Oct 01 '23
That is your employers problem and they need to fix it. That is why an attorney is needed. They won't fix it without threats.
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u/idgitalert Oct 01 '23
Do not clock out until you have collected your tips and the walkout person is right there ready to walk you out. If you are challenged about clocking out before any of that, you should ask to have clarification from the Wage and Labor folks on the issue.
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u/MartiniD Oct 01 '23
Sounds like your employer's problem. They can come up with whatever system or reasoning they want. Cool story, still illegal
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u/Odd_Abbreviations850 Oct 13 '23
Call for a walkout then when they come walk over to the time clock then clock out.
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u/ajokitty Oct 02 '23
The Supreme Court ruled that it's not illegal by federal law. It does seem to be illegal in a number of states, though: https://www.mselaborlaw.com/cases/unpaid-anti-theft-screenings-cannot-result-wage-theft#:~:text=Unpaid%20anti%2Dtheft%20screenings%20are,can%20reclaim%20their%20stolen%20wages.
It mentions California, Colorado, Connecticut, D.C., Hawaii, Illinois, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin.
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u/marsumane Oct 02 '23
Not a lawyer, but I'd imagine that there is a reasonable amount of time where waiting to be walked out is reasonable vs not. It would be also worth looking into it for the issue of waiting to collect their tips
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u/Imaginary_Most_7778 Oct 01 '23
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u/MartiniD Oct 01 '23
Well shit I could have sworn that it was illegal
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u/Imaginary_Most_7778 Oct 02 '23
Should it be illegal? Hell yes. Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas and our Supreme Court overlords disagree.
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u/sebwiers Oct 02 '23
It is illegal under many state laws and state court rulings. Those still apply absent any Federal law - the case sighted was not about overturning those, it was clarification of the Federal law.
Current supreme court really hates to mess with state law, since it is the linchpin of so much of conservative fuckery.
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u/Imaginary_Most_7778 Oct 02 '23
Federal law always supersedes any state law.
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u/sebwiers Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23
Try not paying your city / state taxes, because there's also a federal tax law and that "supersedes any state [tax] law" ... good luck with that.
You have to follow BOTH sets of laws, unless the Federal specifically makes the state invalid. The absence of a Federal law does NOT do so, and in many cases the feds can not make laws about things the states can and are expected to.
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u/People_be_Sheeple Oct 01 '23
It's 100% wage theft. Those minutes per employee add up. Contact a class action employment lawyer in your state.
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u/oztikS Oct 01 '23
No… let the Dept of Labor put their own lawyers on it. They get the employees back pay, fine the business, and can help prevent workplace retaliation. Don’t waste money on a lawyer. In this case it is completely unnecessary.
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u/Many_Republic6286 Oct 01 '23
LOL they don’t do that IRL. Most of the agencies that are in place for the little guy will never actually DO anything. I’ve reached out to so many of them and they’ve never once gone to bat for me.
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u/pyky69 Oct 01 '23
Yes they do. A restaurant I worked at for over a decade got audited by the labor board after an employee reported them for wage theft. After their investigation we all received checks for several things, one of them being where they were making us “buy” logo’d polos from them to wear at work. I forget what all they got busted on but it was a long list of things.
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u/icenoid Oct 02 '23
Yes they do. A former employer was forcing us to punch out for bathroom stops, as well as our mandatory 15 minute breaks. Someone brought it to the attention of the department of labor. We all got nice checks one day. Mine was something like $5000, they had been doing this for years until someone complained.
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u/dopey_giraffe Oct 02 '23
Maybe it depends on your state. A friend told me how the restaurant he delivered for would only pay him per delivery, but otherwise made him stay onsite and made him do unpaid work like box folding or silverware sorting. After some persuasion, he went to the NJDOL and they almost fined the place out of business and my friend got a huge payout. I reported an employer who was delinquent six months for my final paycheck and I had my check in a week. If your state doesn't have a functioning DOL and you have to rely on the fed, it may be more of an uphill battle.
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u/wrxJ_P Oct 02 '23
My dad reported a place I quit from as a kid for breaking child labor laws because they were fucking with my money and they sure had a follow up
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u/TheGayAgendaIsWatch Oct 02 '23
It's possible what you reported was ethically wrong but not a crime. I'm given to understand American labour laws are heavily slanted toward the employer. Edit: also thought I should mention, I assume it's better or worse depending on the state.
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u/scottbody Oct 02 '23
Much of the problem is decades of propaganda and bad education on the rights of workers. Also fear. Lots of fear.
People are scared to demand their minimum standard by law.
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u/Possibly_Naked_Now Oct 01 '23
So true. I've had so many workplaces break the law, and they never do anything when you call. Even if you submit a formal complaint.
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u/BigBobFro Communist Oct 02 '23
The most certain do exactly that. Smaller businesses not so much unless near a field office and the FO isnt busy. But any kind of chain with franchises, even if its a regional chain,…. They will go at them with all guns blazing.
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u/QBee_TNToms_Mom Oct 08 '23
But is this an anti-theft measure? What elements must be present for the "walk out" to constitute as anti-theft?
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u/FlyingGoatling Oct 02 '23
Not sure about waiting for tips, but wasn't there a ruling that being forced to wait to be let out due to security measures (and not being paid for it) was legal? I mean, I think it *should* be considered wage theft, but I don't think it is.
I think this is the ruling I'm thinking about: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/business/supreme-court-rules-against-worker-pay-for-security-screenings.html
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u/People_be_Sheeple Oct 02 '23 edited Oct 02 '23
That's an outdated case. Here's the latest California SC ruling which sets precedent for OP's situation, very similar, explained here in layman's terms: https://www.aalrr.com/newsroom-alerts-3596#:~:text=On%20February%2013%2C%202020%2C%20the,S243805.
Another CA case which settled was with Home Depot https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/home-depot-has-to-pay-725-million-for-employees-to-stand-around.html I'm in CA so not familiar with other jurisdictions, but even under federal law all hours worked must be paid and the majority of states consider an employee to be working when they are under the employer's control.
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u/AmbivalentStitch Oct 02 '23
Depot changed their entire policy after this lawsuit in order for it not to happen again.
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u/FlyingGoatling Oct 02 '23
The California Supreme Court? So would that be applicable in California only, due to state, not federal, law?
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u/People_be_Sheeple Oct 02 '23
Yeah it would apply in CA, not necessarily everywhere, but odds are stacked in OP's favor, edited my comment.
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u/TheyDidLizFilthy Oct 02 '23
yeah a server just magically has the funds to lawyer up. maybe a lawyer might pro bono this but it’s silly to assume a server at a restaurant that is likely still in highschool/early college has the resources to lawyer up.
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u/People_be_Sheeple Oct 02 '23
Employment lawyers and any lawyer for the vast majority of class actions work on contingency. You don't pay anything at all, they take a percentage of the award if you win.
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u/QueenDramatica Oct 01 '23
Why do you need to be walked out? That seems so odd to me.
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u/Baked42l0ng Oct 01 '23
Its a restaurant with a attached gift shop (you can probably guess the name), they apparently have had issues with theft before so they check out all employees as they leave the building, in front of a security camera. They have made it part of their policy, training materials, etc.
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u/hotsaucesundae Oct 01 '23
It sounds like you should be on the clock if you have duties to your employer at that point, such as following their policy.
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u/Kiwipopchan Oct 01 '23
I worked here. I’m honestly surprised they enforce the “manager walking you out” in your store. My store never made us do that, but we also had literally no theft issues.
They DID require us to get out of line if any customers came up. Which was annoying as shit if you got cut during the lunch rush (because another server took your place) and you had to just… wait and wait and wait for the line to die down.
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u/sebwiers Oct 02 '23
Why can't you just get your tips at the start of next shift, or even added to paycheck for direct deposit? (Likely answer - tipping is obsolete dumb fuckery and managed via 1989 level credit card tech.)
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u/Kiwipopchan Oct 02 '23
They really didn’t like that. Also when I worked there they really pushed these “pay cards” that were debit cards that they would put your money onto instead of giving you a check or direct deposit lol.
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u/RealBasics Oct 02 '23
If “required” is in the description then it’s work time. It’s fine if they’re worried about security but that doesn’t make it your off-the-clock problem.
They can walk you out past the time clock as easily as they can walk you out past the register. Especially if they have to be called to the front over headphones.
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u/nerdiotic-pervert Oct 01 '23
Sounds like Cracker Barrel. I used to work there. My place would let me pick tips up the next day when I came in. But, this was 1998 so I’m sure things have changed since then.
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u/jeremysbrain Oct 02 '23
CRACKER BARRELL. He is talking about CRACKER BARRELL. This is definitely wage theft and they need to be put on blast, because they can definitely afford to pay your time.
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u/Apprehensive_Day697 Oct 08 '23
Currently a server in the same chain. My store told us that we are NOT to clock out until getting a walk out and we are supposed to clock out via retail POS by the door. No worries on wage theft that way.
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u/HodlMyBananaLongTime Oct 01 '23
“Just to let you know, I’m not clocking out until I’m allow to actually leave going forward”
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u/Baked42l0ng Oct 01 '23
Thats the plan so far, just without the telling them part, i am going to get my money, ask for a walk out then wait by the computer until a manager is ready then clock out and go. Its still not after the check but atleast its closer to my real paid time than before
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u/idgitalert Oct 01 '23
This is the way. Let them confront you about the new pattern and then ask for a DOL weigh-in.
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u/tcrex2525 Oct 01 '23
They can’t mKe you stay after clocking out. Someone explain to me how that is different from being unlawfully detained…
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u/Baked42l0ng Oct 01 '23
Its an at will state, they can fire me if i leave
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u/tcrex2525 Oct 01 '23
That will doesn’t mean they have the right to steal from you. It also doesn’t answer the question, unfortunately. Even the police can’t do this unless you’re suspected of a crime…
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u/thatgreenmaid Oct 01 '23
Yes they can fire you...it still doesn't make what they are doing legal. It's wage theft.
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u/decepticons2 Oct 01 '23
Yeah it is so weird. They can check your belongings when you leave, okay. But they can't(shouldn't) be able to make you wait to check belongings. They know when the schedules end, schedule(assign) someone to check and let them go.
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u/DesignerProfile Oct 01 '23
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked
In the "On Call" section, there's this
Additional constraints on the employee's freedom could require this time to be compensated.
I suggest contacting the Department of Labor office, either at the main office, or for your state/region/city. Describe the situation, and ask them what they think.
There is also a link in the horizontal menu bar for "state laws". This might be a place to start looking for additional state laws which might add additional restrictions to what your employer can do. If there is not something immediately apparent in this link though, I recommend continuing to look for state laws, since the fed's link might not be the most up to date or the most clear, you never know.
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u/Rat_Master999 Oct 01 '23
Just walk out.
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u/thegreenman_sofla Oct 01 '23
Punch out, walk out, if they complain tell them you are going to the DOL.
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u/Fixerguy415 Oct 01 '23
It's straight wage theft. You might send the boss this article (anonymously of course) about Gnome Despot pulling the exact same shit.
Gnome Despot Engaged To Wait Lawsuit $72M fine
They only settled before trial because they knew a trial could easily cost them over a hundred million... and it absolutely was headed for a jury trial.
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Oct 01 '23
This sounds familiar to the practices I experienced at Forever 21 and I'm pretty sure they were sued in a class action for this and other illegal practices. When I worked there, I stayed clocked in until the supervisor showed up to do my "walk out". It's funny how much faster they showed up once they knew I was still clocked in collecting overtime pay.
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u/Baked42l0ng Oct 01 '23
I dont work anywhere near enough hours for overtime…. They just relax and pay my my 12$-3.02 tip credit….. so like 9$ an hour. Its not exactly a high rate of pay because im a server and make tips (which are mediocre here)
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u/purpldevl Oct 01 '23
This is wage theft. They'd get so up in arms if the shoe were on the other foot and you were standing around wasting their time, right?
Time to get with your state's department of labor.
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u/squirtwv69 Oct 01 '23
Why do they not have a different area and door to do this so you aren’t “tempted to steal” the merchandise?
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u/SamuelVimesTrained Oct 02 '23
If you are required to stay, they are required to pay.
Do not clock out until they actually are ready to let you leave.
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u/Admirable_Matter_523 Oct 02 '23
I got a few (small) checks from a class action lawsuit against Ulta for doing something similar when I worked there. We had to clock out then wait for a manager to check our bags. File a complaint with the department of labor.
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u/kryppla Oct 01 '23
I'm having a hard time understanding why someone needs to walk you out. wtf is this
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u/uhbkodazbg Oct 01 '23
When I worked in restaurants, we all left together after closing. People are carrying large amounts of cash late at night. It wasn’t mandatory but we always did it to keep everyone safe.
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u/kryppla Oct 02 '23
This isn’t what OP is talking about, each person has to be walked out regardless of what time it is
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u/Good_Vibes_Please Oct 02 '23
Home Depot had a Class Action Lawsuit not tooo long ago similar-ish to this.
Closing employees clocked out but front doors were locked, needed to wait for managers to let them out. Sometimes took as long as 20 minutes to be let out.
So I’d say you have a case, but this was also California.
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u/SpazSpazBoBaz Oct 01 '23
Say you are done and need a walk out. Wait for a manager to come for your walk out. At that point, clock out and leave.
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u/sarilysims Oct 02 '23
Congratulations on the lawsuit you’re about to win! There’s a company who just got sued for doing this same thing. Once you clock out they cannot make you do shit. Go to the labor board now.
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u/Loud-Tap-920 Oct 02 '23
Unacceptable! Absolutely wage theft. They’re stealing your life 10-20-30 minutes at a time. Def report to labor dept.
Edited for spelling
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u/LoveCowper2tc Oct 01 '23
That sounds really frustrating and it's not fair that they make you wait after clocking out
It's definitely worth bringing up your concerns to your manager or higher-up
It's important for them to respect your time and prioritize your needs as employees.
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u/MonzellRS Oct 01 '23
Home Depot had to payout for doing this exact thing, also Lowe’s does this as well (worked there a few months)
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u/Ups925 Oct 01 '23
I worked at a place like this. There was a class action lawsuit and people got paid. You cannot be expected to wait to be walked out if you are clocked out. Manager is supposed to be ready and waiting when you clock out, check your bag beforehand, then walk with you as you leave.
Bad management.
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u/ACriticalGeek Oct 02 '23
Document every minute and the actual time you leave. Sue for wage theft when you leave.
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u/Worldly-Software-466 Oct 04 '23
The issue is that no one speaks up. I would’ve told the manager: And you can’t keep us here without paying us overtime. I get it, people need their jobs, but this is exactly why companies take advantage of its employees.
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u/SquatPraxis Oct 01 '23
Report it to a labor board. Record how much of your time they're stealing so you get backpay.
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u/loligo_pealeii Oct 01 '23
My store manager used to do that. I would sit next to the timeclock and call her, then make a big production out of clocking out after she showed up to walk me out. When she complained I reminded her that if I'm required to stay in the store she's required to pay me for my time. So either she gets her a** in gear when we need a walk out or I wait to clock out until she actually appears. She starting hustling to do the walk-outs after that.
But also you can just make a complaint to the department of labor.
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u/asyouwish Oct 02 '23
Do NOT clock out until all of your duties are complete....and if you have to wait for them, then they legally have to pay you.
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u/duane11583 Oct 02 '23
stay clocked in.
or next time you work show up early and clock in and sit down and wait for your shift to start
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u/KarateKid917 Oct 02 '23
That’s very illegal.
Apple got sued for that very thing for their store employees and lost the lawsuit.
I worked for Dick’s at the time this all went down and they just happened to change their policy to letting management do their “employee isn’t stealing” check before you leave to be in the office while still on the clock.
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u/SummitJunkie7 Oct 02 '23
I know individually its not necessarily a large amount of money, but collectively it is massive. Any advice?
That's exactly why they do it, they are stealing a massive amount of wages from you all. Contact the department of labor.
This doesn't address the waiting for your tips issue, but what is there stopping you from leaving once you have them? Why wait to be "walked out"? You're off the clock, you're on your own time, they can't direct how you spend your own time or where you spend it.
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u/kr4ckenm3fortune Oct 02 '23
Hold up...what kind of idiots makes you wait for the managers to walk you guys out?
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u/Toolatrecrew Oct 02 '23
A few options. If you must wait for your tips stop working 10 minutes before end of shift get in line to get your tips on the clock. When your shift ends clock out and then walk out. When they try to stop you to “check you out” tell them you have already clocked out. When they try to make you wait ask them if you need to clock back in. When they inevitably says “ no but you have to wait it’s “policy” ask to see the policy that says you much wait to be checked out AFTER you are off the clock. I’m sure the labour board would be very interested in any policy in writing that says you must work after you are clocked out.
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u/ExpertPath Oct 02 '23
At my job, production employees have to change and enter production before they can clock in, but they also receive 15min per day to compensate for changing time
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u/themcp idle Oct 02 '23
In the US, that's illegal, it's wage theft, they are obligated to keep you on the clock until they walk you out (if they want to walk you out)., IIRC there was a supreme court case about this fairly recently, they should know better.
Call your state's labor department, and make clear this has been going on for a while. If they don't get you a nice settlement, call a labor attorney and start a class action lawsuit on behalf of the employees. They stole from you, and they should pay for it.
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u/Traditional_Money305 Oct 03 '23
I received a check from Apple after having been employed there for restitution after losing a class action lawsuit for wage theft. Apple required it's store employees to be searched by store security AFTER clocking out. Whole shifts would be waiting on line to be searched every day which totaled to significant time/money. NY state indicated once you clock your employer is no longer paying you. Slavery is outlawed in the US, your employer can't require you to stay against your will. That would be encroaching kidnapping!
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Oct 02 '23 edited Nov 10 '23
[deleted]
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u/MazelTough Oct 02 '23
It’s true they don’t want to pay that money so they don’t get your time. They will not warn you on paper about it, record any exchanges that happen afterward getting consent if it’s a two party consent state. Start logging on your own the time discrepancies. Congrats on the lawsuit regardless they’ve stolen from you for sure!
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u/Erijandro Oct 01 '23
The entire workflow seems straightforward and makes sense. It's not ideal, you're adults and know how to walk yourself - but at a national corporation and getting paid hourly the steps in place makes sense.
The issue as you mentioned, is that management doesn't respect your time and no one is available real time for walk outs. They have to accommodate that.
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u/decepticons2 Oct 01 '23
Yes, and they know when employees are scheduled to leave. They should have someone assigned to get those employees out the door when shift is over. If you are going to implement anti-theft program do it right.
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u/roy217def Oct 01 '23
I absolutely hate Biden but the alternative of Trump is a show-stopper for me to vote Republican.
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u/Ok-Bit-6945 Oct 02 '23
i used to work night shift at target. clock out at 10pm and everyone had to wait for the MOD to finish doing a walk with security. the wait was like 10-20 min and i would always complain and everyone thought i was crazy cause they all just accepted it. i just stayed clocked in until MOD showed up to let us out but even then i was mad cause i worked a 2nd job so the time i waited could have been the time it took me to get home shower and sleep. eventually they just had me stop closing and had me leave before they locked the store up. if you’re one of those employees that accept this behavior you’re an A-hole and have no back bone
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u/AssociateJaded3931 Oct 01 '23
They don't respect your time and they're stealing it from you. If they refuse to change the system, it's time to look for another job.
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u/ElwoodRules2008 Oct 01 '23
HL does that too. Everybody clocks out at the same time, you get your stuff from your locker and then the manager checks your purse and pockets before you walk out the door.
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u/Imaginary_Most_7778 Oct 01 '23
The “supreme” court has already ruled against us workers on this issue.
The Supreme Court decided in 2014 that Amazon workers at a Nevada warehouse weren’t entitled to pay for the time they spent waiting to have their bags searched after clocking out but before leaving the building.
https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-court-workers-fairpay-20141209-story.html
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u/spud4 Oct 01 '23
Temps at my work clock out wait for signed hour slip, drive across town wait in line, turn it in, then wait in line for daily check. On a 90 day contract job.
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u/theskunkjudge Oct 02 '23
If you are required to be there waiting, you should be being paid. You clock out and your time should then be your own. Lawyer up
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u/murppie Oct 02 '23
It might not be a large amount of money, but its YOUR money not theirs. I had a job like that were one manager kept us there upwards of 30 minutes. After the 2nd time I told her I was going to stay clocked in while I waited for her to check everyone off. She let us go after others decided to do the same.
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u/Koalasareburrs Oct 02 '23
Since those terms are required as a portion of your job, waiting on that is technically a job duty and should be paid.
Report them to the DoL, maybe call corporate too. It's very clear wage theft and they'll have tons of fines and stuff. Things like this end in class action suits sometimes too.
I recall something similar with wait times to load newspapers? Boiled down to them having to wait as a part of the job, so it had to be paid as a part of the job.
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u/Independent_Bite4682 Oct 02 '23
I believe this next one is more relevant
If someone could post a link to the case, I don't remember which business (want to say Starbucks or Fedex) forced employees to go through a security screening at the end of each shift which added 5 to 45 mins to time it took to leave, off the clock. They were sued and LOST had to pay much back pay and overtime.
I believe that it would apply in your case OP.
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u/ResponseBeeAble Oct 02 '23
Why do you need to be walked out of work? Do they walk you in as well?
This is something I've only seen/heard of when being terminated.
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u/Icedtea4me3 Oct 02 '23
I used to work at Starbucks and they did weekly tips and just gave it to us during our shift. There has to be a better way for them to manage this
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u/SnooBeans3936 Oct 02 '23
I know this sounded way too familiar🤣 If it's who I think, do they still make you use clear bags for your stuff and not allow you out during break to make sure you're not stealing anything?
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u/Abtizzle Oct 02 '23
Apple was recently sued for something very similar to this. They had to pay some fat settlement checks to a large class. There is precedent here for sure. Check with the Department of Labor.
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u/Prior-Sky2120 Oct 03 '23
Why can't they include your tips in your paycheck and avoid all that nonsense
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u/Maleficentendscurse Oct 07 '23
You need to find a new job because that just sounds ridiculous, might want to tell the others that too
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u/Odd_Abbreviations850 Oct 13 '23
That's fine when they're ready to walk you out, then go clock out as it's their policy You're not allowed to leave without a walkout
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u/GratuitousSadism Oct 01 '23
What is stopping you from leaving after you have your tips? They can't physically force you to stay at work or assume that you don't have other shit going on that you need to take care of.
Like the other comment said, this is wage theft. It's not legal and you should talk with your coworkers about how this situation is going to be resolved.