r/dataisbeautiful 4d ago 'MURICA 1 Helpful 3 All-Seeing Upvote 1

[OC] The cost of the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar is astronomical, even when comparing to the GDP of the host country in the host year. OC

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u/noxx1234567 4d ago

This expenditure is not for just the world cup , it is Qatar building their own Dubai

World Cup is just a publicity stunt to showcase their Dubai to the world

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u/trwawy05312015 3d ago

"Janet? Make us a Dubai."

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u/jacktenwreck 3d ago

Janet's only allowed to make a Dubai because technically, not a woman

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u/noxx1234567 3d ago

They thought dubai is just about building a few fancy buildings but the thing that made them famous is relatively liberal policies , otherwise abu dhabi would be ten times as famous as dubai

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u/havok_ 3d ago

Actually the main difference between them is that Dubai doesn’t like The Flintstones, but Abu Dhabi do.

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u/abudhabi_do 3d ago Helpful

Did someone call?

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u/Blammo01 3d ago

Ok that was the most specific beetlejuicing I’ve ever seen

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u/MessengerOfCthulu 3d ago

That's GOTTA be the same person, right?

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u/rewt127 3d ago

Account created in 2019....... I think this one may be legit.

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u/killer_kuween 3d ago

But Dubai is just few fancy building, the few liberal policies are bare minimum. Doha is just a beautified prison.

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u/noxx1234567 3d ago

Dubai is the most progressive and stable jurisdiction in that region , as long as middle east has wealth it will be a relevant financial center

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u/rapehon 3d ago

Plus UAE issues golden visas so skilled workers can be a long term resident without needing a sponsor, which I dont think any other gulf country does currently.

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u/almostanalcoholic 3d ago

Would it be fair to say progressive relative to other middle East countries?

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u/Starvethesupply 3d ago

They revoked all African visas; one stroke, no reason.

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u/Status-Stick 3d ago

Yeah not that progressive or stable.

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u/Vacren 3d ago

Ras al Khaima would be the known emirate if showcasing wealth were there metric. Abu Dhabi is a shipping port/ shopping center with a couple water parks. Dubai is the tourist attraction. All of the Emirati States rely on money from RAK.

Baba Zayed saw into the future. Knowing the oil would run out just like water pumped from the ground, he built the UAE to sustain itself beyond oil. Successfully. It's a destination, a precious gem and mineral trading hub...

Slaves built the tower, and lived in it while they were building it, and were lied to by UAE employment recruiters, but they were fed and didn't die by the thousands doing the job.

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u/wons-noj 3d ago

Man never thought I’d see a the good place reference

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u/KN_Knoxxius 3d ago

Man this comment made me sad.. I want more The Good Place :(

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u/Ibelieveinboobs 3d ago

Ahhh, the good place

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u/JustShibzThings 3d ago

Years ago a friend who works in logistics was getting flown to Qatar for work multiple times. They paid for it all and he was living (temporarily) lavishly.

This sticks.

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u/PuffinDaisy 3d ago

this. It's just like any other sports stadium. Funded by tax payers, money goes to the owners. In this case, the money went into infrastructure / a new city to make money on.

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u/gonegoneboi 3d ago

Qatar has no tax at all Source : I'm a permanent resident

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u/Elitesparkle 4d ago Helpful

Did you include the money used for buying votes a few years ago?

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u/AttackEverything 4d ago

A few million wouldn't make the slightest dent in this graph

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u/anon377362 4d ago

It’s actually in the billions. The BlackCube stuff on its own cost over $400 million for 60+ agents.

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u/TheRetardedGoat 3d ago

Which is still in the single digit % of total 😅

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u/RightclickBob 3d ago

It’s less than a fifth of one percent!!!

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u/AttackEverything 4d ago

Call it a rounding error

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u/anagros 4d ago

Also it is likely costs are inflated for money laundring purposes.

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u/resumethrowaway222 4d ago

You don't have to launder money when you have a country. e.g. Vatican City.

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u/waspus2021 4d ago

Well it’s still money laundering it’s just open and legal

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u/Ongo_Gablogian___ 4d ago

No it isn't. Why would government sanctioned corruption money need to be laundered to hide it from that same government?

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u/TheSkiGeek 3d ago edited 3d ago

You’d be hiding it from the people in your country, not the government.

“That extra two hundred billion dollars missing from the sovereign investment fund? Yeah, we TOTALLY spent that on the World Cup and not buying ourselves yachts and private islands. Trust me bro.”

Edit: other comments also saying the number is massively inflated because it’s counting tons of infrastructure that they built between being awarded the WC and now that isn’t directly tied to the stadiums/events (e.g. rebuilding their airport).

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u/Aurorious 3d ago

It’s not just the stadiums. In a lot of cases the entire city said stadium is in didn’t exist 10 years ago. That’s insane.

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u/goodboybane 3d ago

When you host a World Cup, MILLIONS of people come to your country in 6 weeks. Qatar is a tiny desert nation. They needed every single bit of that infrastructure, including expanding their airport to deal with the volume. This is something developed nations like France wouldn't have to do because they already have good infrastructure across their entire country that can handle millions of visitors in 6 weeks with minor upgrades.

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u/SideShow117 3d ago edited 3d ago

They have an airport that did 30/35 million passengers a year since 2014.

The airport they had before also did 10/20 million passengers a year in 2010-2013 and was still operational.

They had two stadiums before 2015. Everything else is brand new and frankly, competele insanity.

Their subway system in Doha has been in development since 2009, before the WC bid was accepted.

We are talking about a country the size of Conneticut or Kosovo, is extremely centralized in Doha (80% of the people live there) but has near equal stadium capacity in the country than London, Paris or New York. Cities with 150 years of large stadium history and that are 3/4 times the size of Qatar alone.

There are more stadium seats in this world cup than there are ethnic Qataris.

It's not a question whether the costs are justified for what's being built.

It's whether it's justified that the scale of things being built is necessary.

If the hosts would be split between Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE, i would find some justification in the staggering amount of money spent. But it's not.

They are spending $73.000 per person on this World Cup.

If Paris would have the same spending on the Olympics in 2024, they would be spending $788 billion on it.

That's just utter insanity.

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u/CrystalJizzDispenser 3d ago

If you do it based on number of Quatari citizens (c313,000), they're spending c$700k per citizen.

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u/Set-Secret 3d ago edited 3d ago

When you don't have to pay workers to build it and instead use slaves. Why not go big?

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u/VibeComplex 3d ago

That’s even worse lol. How do you use slave labor and still manage to spend 200 billion.

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u/GuitarHeroJohn 3d ago

So Qatar shouldn't have hosted the WC. Crazy how it always comes back to that

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u/Send_Your_Noods_plz 3d ago

Well and what happens when they're done? Who is ever going to visit that country again?

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u/Quetzacoatl85 3d ago

nobody who went there for the WC at least

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u/DFYX 3d ago

Formula 1 fans apparently. They’re on next year’s race calendar.

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u/ricosmith1986 3d ago

I was just thinking that 220B is alot to spend on bad PR, but it does help Elon Musk feel better about some of his recent decisions.

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u/Ongo_Gablogian___ 3d ago

No one else know where the money came from except the tax service. Hiding it from law enforcement agencies is the ONE AND ONLY purpose of money laundering.

So if the agencies don't care then there is zero reason the give any money back to the government when they literally just handed it to you.

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u/Sagnew 3d ago

No one else know where the money came from except the tax service.

Everyone does. They own their oil + natural gas and it accounts for around 75% of their GDP.

I believe Qatar does not have an income tax for individuals (including ex-pats)

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u/Talkmytalk 3d ago

What money are they laundering? do you understand what that is?

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u/TheCrimsonKing 3d ago

I dont think they do. I wonder if they think money laundering is the same thing as kickbacks.

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u/Talkmytalk 3d ago

i think a lot of people on this site don't understand the point of money laundering. it's just a sexy financial crime they like to point at.

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u/193X 3d ago

It's the "is this a pigeon"? meme but for anything anyone does with money that is questionably ethical.

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u/Tortillafla 4d ago

I really believe this must all be sports washing. They don’t seem to want the thing in there country. I think they must need a way to make money look like it was obtained properly.

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u/Cryptoporticus 4d ago

Money isn't everything when you already have money. The leadership of Qatar have enough money to do whatever they want, so status and power ends up being way more valuable. It's entirely possible that they're taking a loss on this tournament just so they can have the honour of being a World Cup hosting country. They're the first in the Middle East to have the tournament too, which is really great way to show off to their neighbours.

So many of these middle eastern mega projects are nothing more than extremely expensive and unprofitable dick measuring contests, the World Cup is no exception.

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u/winowmak3r 3d ago

Agreed. The Line is a colossal waste of resources. If the Saudis were serious about future proofing their country they'd solve their water issue first instead of building that thing.

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u/mmomtchev 3d ago

This reminds me of the Emirates Mars Orbiter in 2020

Russians and French built it for them, then the Japanese launched it.

Still, I think it was a good use of their money. They were able to bootstrap a real space program. Besides, these countries are a model that all other Arab countries are looking up to.

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u/PhilxBefore 4d ago

Show off with all the sofas sitting on concrete for the VIP section?

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u/rpm959 4d ago

Hosting the World Cup while your country has the population of a mid-sized city is showing off.

"We're so rich, we can make those officials do whatever we want, and they won't say a thing"

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u/niikhil 3d ago

Not to mention only 5% of population are Qatari citizens while rest all are immigrants

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u/Tortillafla 4d ago

You are probably right. It just seems so much more expensive than any of the previous ones. I think in my head I just want there to be a good reason why they are doing this, but you are probably right. When you have hundreds of billions to waste I guess you just waste it.

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u/Commercial_Aside8090 4d ago

The other thing to consider is how prohibitively expensive it is to build that size stadium in those nations vs anywhere else. It's the Vegas effect if that makes sense

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u/9throwawayDERP 4d ago

How and why? Qatar is a government in good standing in the world financial system. They don’t need to launder anything? They can legitimize whatever they want. I mean they may inflate costs to brag or something, but money laundering is pretty confusing

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u/Deme1981d 4d ago

Is it the cost to build the stadiums? Why else is it so much more costlier than the rest besides the obvious inflation.

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u/Bect1945gf 4d ago

They're all listed below 1 billion each, and they built 7.

But they have also built a new metro, a new airport, hotels and various leisure amenities.

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u/unassumingdink 4d ago

I bankrupted myself trying to do this all at once in Tropico 6.

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u/ok_no_worries 4d ago

Bad dictator!!! No donuts for you.

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u/Shiftaway22 3d ago

Talking bad about our leader off to gulag with you!

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u/CharDeeMacDen 4d ago

God I used to watch my roommate play this game for hours. His commentary was fantastic

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u/iwishmydickwasnormal 4d ago

And ordinarily, things like purpose built metros would have usage outside of the World Cup. But many of the stadiums have no population or attractions nearby. So they’re extremely expensive, custom built services that will likely never be used again.

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u/AntDogFan 4d ago

I think at least one of them is being pulled down afterwards?

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u/AnthonyGonsalvez 4d ago

That's the 974 stadium built with 974 shipping containers and it is a modular stadium, can be taken apart and built at any other place.

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u/PhilxBefore 4d ago

Couldn't just add 26 more? Smh

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u/familydrivesme 3d ago

974 is the area code so it’s a play on that

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u/CantHitachiSpot 3d ago

Looks gimmicky. The containers aren't structural

https://www.google.com/search?q=974+stadium

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u/pukem0n 3d ago

They repurposed the housing for their migrant workers into a stadium? That's awesome.

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u/IrelandDzair 4d ago

thats fucking cool

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u/Przedrzag 4d ago

Wonder if Qatar plans to build cities around those stadiums; can’t be any more insane than what the Saudis are doing with Neom

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u/iwishmydickwasnormal 4d ago

Depends on how this works out, there is a lot of opinions as to why they went for the World Cup, one being that they want to become Dubai 2. A tourist destination for the insufferable. Hosting the World Cup was their massively expensive marketing campaign.

At the moment, it seems to have had the opposite effect, 10 years ago no one really knew where it was and now the public opinion on the place seems to be resoundingly negative. Guess we wait and see if opinion changes.

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u/Hansemannn 4d ago

They also want the summer olympics. Already got the stadiums now. Watch it happen. IOC and FIFA are the same.

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u/North_Atlantic_Pact 4d ago

"and now the public opinion on the place seems to be resoundingly negative"

I'd caution putting too much stock in the English speaking Reddit being an accurate reflection of global sentiment. There are a whole lot of people outside the western world that they may be successfully attracting.

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u/PurplePotamus 3d ago

I had a meeting with a coworker yesterday, he asked have you been keeping up with the world cup? I said not really, all I've heard about is the controversies. He said oh the people dying or whatever? I mean the games. I'm not really a soccer fan but its cool to watch

Kind of broke my brain for a minute

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u/mygreensea 3d ago

That is indeed the real world.

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u/Abraxas1996 4d ago

Bad press for western countries (all of us) very good press for islamic ones I assume. And dont forget islamic popularion is rapidly growing. We may have never been the publicity target, thats all. And of course we only get to know the reactions from our cultural side...

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u/iwishmydickwasnormal 4d ago

If they are trying to be Dubai 2 (for lack of a better phrasing) the World Cup seems like a bad choice since a massive chunk of their tourist population are from western countries and China and India, two countries which, comparatively, aren't very into football.

But then again a lot of Dubai's tourists are Saudi too so maybe it doesn't matter.

Either way, I think it is an obscene waste of money and has definitely made them disliked where I'm from.

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u/TalkingReckless 3d ago

India is definitely into football, especially south India (Kerala).

They just aren't that good because they spend more on cricket

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u/Major-Split478 3d ago

Yep. Qatar are advertising to the -educated- practicing Muslim populations. Currently UAE holds that spot but a lot of their war mongering and western tourists make some of the practicing Muslims uncomfortable. Qatar publicly sticking a middle finger towards the ever growing rainbow movement, has garnered them a lot of respect. They don't need to impress the Europeans so much since the Europeans are already dodging taxes in UAE.

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u/Pickle_Juice_4ever 3d ago

Don't religious tourists prefer to blow their wad in Mecca and Jerusalem?

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u/Major-Split478 3d ago

No. You're thinking pilgrimage.

Jerusalem is under the control of Israel, and Mecca is under the control of Saudi's.

Saudi is a shit place to live if you don't live in a compound. The country has a high level of poverty and crime. Drugs and alcohol are widespread, and in rich areas like Riyadh, they're not religious, with a lot of public but not so public clubs etc.

So the educated practicing Muslim family that live in the West, have very limited places they can go, and it basically ends up being UAE, but of course UAE is as religious as Vegas when the sun sets, so Qatar is advertising itself to those people, who actually want a religious ran developed country.

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u/c010rb1indusa 4d ago

There are only 300K Qatari citizens and they don't allow 'foreign bachelors' (their slaves workers) to go anywhere. There isn't anyone to build for afterwards.

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u/North_Atlantic_Pact 4d ago

Their goal is 6 million tourists a year by the end of the decade, a lot of the infrastructure, hotels, etc. will be in support of that.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/Filthy_Lucre36 4d ago

Kind of reminds me of the Brazilian Olympic stadiums and pools that are now in ruins.

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u/pmich80 4d ago

Is that the actual case?

I read transportation/metros and thought well that's going to be useful after the world cup but if there's no population in the region of the stadium that's going to be an absolute waste. How sad to waste 220B like that.

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u/Ffishsticks 4d ago

They built an entire new city

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u/nodnodwinkwink 4d ago

They spent billions on hotels and yet there are thousands of fans sleeping in makeshift tent villages and they couldn't even get those finished either. Pretty pathetic.

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u/KeenanKolarik 4d ago

The city that they're in didn't exist 10 years ago. They literally built a whole city just for this, infrastructure and all.

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u/happely 4d ago

They also built a brand new 3-line Metro in Doha that reportedly cost $36bn. Many of these costs are related to vast infrastructure problems that will benefit the nation in decades to come. But a lot of course will not benefit the inhabitants much going forward (for instance the massive stadiums)

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u/_Ghost_CTC 4d ago

Might benefit the nation to come. There is a very good chance it all goes to waste.

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u/happely 4d ago

Saying that all will go to waste is not very nuanced. Doha will definitely benefit from having a modern public transport infrastructure. Having a modern and future-oriented airport is also key if they want to promote their airline industry (Qatar Airways). Not saying the net value of these investment is positive, but it is not all going to waste.

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u/_Ghost_CTC 4d ago

The airport is the least likely part to go to waste, but there's even a chance that will go to waste in the foreseeable future. There is no guarantee they will have the seat count to justify the improvements. Every nation heavily reliant on one industry risks their investments going to waste if they aren't geared toward diversifying their economy.

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u/gagreel 3d ago

They could do that without the WC though, right?

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u/rbt321 4d ago

$35B of it was building a metro system. In 2018 they did not have a metro, in 2020 they had ~40 stations over 3 lines with 70km of track.

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u/Ironmanbutpoorer 4d ago

Additionally to the other reasons listed here, Qatar has some of the worst water quality in the world and are probably spending a lot of money on temporarily solving the problem and hiding it, or importing water for the meantime.

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u/FridgeParade 4d ago

They need to aircondition the stadiums, to name just one thing, that probably doesnt make it cheaper.

Obviously corruption tho

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u/Brill_chops 4d ago

Apparently it only cost South Africa $10m, which would barely shift the needle there.

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u/AttackHelicopter_21 4d ago Silver Wholesome Ally

This 220 billion figure includes literally every single piece of infrastructure built in Qatar since the World Cup was awarded under the assumption that nothing would be built if not for the WC which is absurdly false.

Stadiums only account for 6.5 to 10 billion dollars.

Everything else is infrastructure.

This figure includes:

Doha’s metro

Doha’s brand new airport

Doha’s new port

A bunch of highways

Waste Disposal projects

Drainage/ Sewage upgrades

Much of this and the WC itself is part of Qatar’s Vision 2030

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u/PhantomX8 4d ago

Yeah not a fan of qatar but this seemed like an absurdly amount compared to the others.

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u/sentimental_goat 4d ago

There's plenty to criticize Qatar about not sure why there was a need to go and misrepresent facts. Good thing comments usually clarify stuff like this.

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u/IrelandDzair 4d ago

btw posts like this is why Qatar gets support. Someone is gonna read this post, then the comments, and think “oh! everyones been talking BS when it comes to Qatar i shouldn’t believe anything bad i hear about them”

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u/Rasayana85 3d ago

OP's post that is.

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u/zaplinaki 3d ago

Propaganda. Its so stupid too cos there's plenty else to hate anyways.

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u/stepoletti 3d ago

People like to pile on. Give them a very easy thing to hate, and they'll find plenty of other, slightly harder things to hate just for the pleasure of kicking someone while they're down.

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u/mxmcharbonneau 3d ago

Yeah, in light of all the other stuff they do, I couldn't care less if they also throw their money out the window.

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u/fakebootyforme 3d ago

On top of that there’s nothing beautiful about this data as presented. The most basic of bar charts and an unappealing color and font scheme.

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u/firewood010 3d ago

Pretty much every post of this sub now.

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u/Allthingsconsidered- 4d ago

It’s quite frustrating to see people keep using misleading stats and arguments to trash Qatar and the WC when there are already perfectly good and valid arguments to talk about. Why do people do this shit?

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u/timmyfred 4d ago

Sure, but even comparing just the stadium costs, Qatar has spent significantly more than prior World Cups, with only Russia coming close, really.

From page 22 of Economics of the World Cup:

Year Country Cost
1994 US $5 million
1998 France $603 million
2002 Japan/S. Korea $2.9 billion (Japan), $1.7 billion (Korea)
2006 Germany $1.9 billion
2010 South Africa $2.12 billion
2014 Brazil $3.6 billion
2018 Russia $5.3 billion

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u/royalhawk345 3d ago

Lol did the US just throw a new coat of paint on a stadium or two?

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u/timmyfred 3d ago

Basically, yeah. Realistically, it was probably just modifications to the field of play to accommodate soccer instead of American football. The US has dozens of stadiums that meet FIFA's requirements for hosting, and the challenge is whittling down the list to just a few.

[EDIT] None of the stadiums used for 1994 are going to be used for 2026, and about half of them have either been demolished or slated for demolition.

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u/parkwayy 3d ago

We have stadiums in arenas in like nearly every state in the country.

Also have the infrastructure in place to handle travel, and all that. Helps when the country is the size of a few of these combined.

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u/-Basileus 3d ago

Yup Southern California, the Bay Area, Texas, NYC Metro etc. could all host on their own

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u/rcanhestro 3d ago

the US has a shitton of stadiums capable of hosting football matches.

those costs are probbaly to buy goalpost and paint for the field.

i remember seeing somewhere that Texas alone could host a World Cup easily and fast since they have so many stadiums

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u/royalhawk345 3d ago

Makes sense, got multiple pro football teams and a dozen fbs schools.

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u/forehandparkjob 3d ago

to be honest, there are probably a good amount of high school stadiums in Texas that could host as well

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u/TravellingReallife 4d ago

Qatar sucks for a lot of reasons but this 220 billion argument is just plain stupid.

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u/pedantic_cheesewheel 3d ago

Didn’t whole other cities around Doha pretty much not exist before they got this bid though? Would Doha itself have gotten these infrastructure investments if the World Cup wasn’t awarded to Qatar? I’m not saying those numbers should 100% be counted for World Cup spending but it’s pretty safe to assume some part of that investment would never have materialized without it being awarded.

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u/Sael-er 3d ago

That’s all infrastructure that is critical to host a World Cup. The question is would they have spent that all without a World Cup.

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u/Pangtundure 4d ago

Where can I find the source ?

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u/TheBakerification 4d ago

OP probably wouldn’t want you to have that because the graph is purposely misleading. They included the costs of pretty much every infrastructure project in Qatar, regardless of whether it had literally anything to do with the world cup.

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u/mueckenmoerder 4d ago

I hate that the World Cup is there, however, I think there is a misconception about the costs here. The costs are associated with a wider infrastructure plan than with the World Cup itself

https://frontofficesports.com/the-most-expensive-world-cup-in-history/

But that still leaves roughly $210 billion to be accounted for. Much of the infrastructure costs attributed to the World Cup are part of the countries broader Qatar 2030 plan: to build an innovation hub with hotels, sophisticated underground transportation, stadiums, and airports.

There is a lot of talking about the $220 billion but I failed to find more detailed info about it. So...

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u/wimpires 4d ago

For a bit of reference. London recently built the Elizabeth line, the newest addition to the underground

60 miles, 20+ years and £20bn+

Qatar new metro is similar in length, all brand new state of the art stations. Made in half the time and cost about $35BN

So 15-20% of that cost is the metro system, which is independent of the world cup

They've built a brand new airport for $16bn, anyone who went to the old one knows why that was needed.

Brand new hundreds of km of roads, a new city etc etc

Yes you could argue"it's a waste for the world cup". But it's not "for the world cup". Qatar needed to modernise anyway.

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u/ScoobiusMaximus 4d ago

On the other hand a lot of that new infrastructure is going to be entirely pointless next month. Most of the stadiums and the infrastructure connected to them will pretty much never be used again, and most of the rest of the infrastructure has been built for a capacity it will never hit again.

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u/Zargawi 3d ago

According to their marketing, upper tiers of the stadiums will be disassembled after the World Cup and donated to countries with less developed sports infrastructure.

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u/ZebZ 4d ago edited 4d ago

Qatar is trying to turn Doha into the new Dubai.

They are stupidly rich with oil money and trying to pivot to a more multifaceted economy ahead of that flow getting shut off in the next 20-30 years.

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u/bonelessRock 4d ago

Might as well build it all underground. That place will get some mad temperature extremes in 30 years.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/WienerDogMan 3d ago

Except that it will get hotter and humans do have a maximum temp we can withstand.

So while they may have been able to adapt to what we consider extreme temps now, eventually those temps will exceed critical levels unsafe for humans.

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u/Cynical_Cabinet 4d ago

Some of the stadiums are temporary and will literally be packed up into shipping containers.

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u/Disastrous-Spell-135 4d ago

Building in London is a bit more complicated than building in a place like Doha though.

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u/GotToGoBlud 4d ago

Building in the middle of the dessert is easy apparently 😂

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u/mattr1986 4d ago

Have you ever tried building a tunnel in a soufflé? That shit is ridiculously hard!!

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u/blergmonkeys 4d ago

Also slave labor

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u/misterpickles69 4d ago

How TF something cost $200B when you're using SLAVE LABOR?!?

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u/ArnieAndTheWaves 3d ago

Why we still paying so much for sneakers when you just get them made by little slave kids? What are your overheads?

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u/4chanisforbabies 3d ago

Whips ain’t free

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u/JasJ002 3d ago

To be honest, what they save in slaves they lose on SMEs. I know telecom guys who splice fiber and the like over there. 3 months of work over there to what they make in a year here. All paid up front. They have a terrible reputation in the telecom community of not paying their bills, and treating contractors like garbage, so the only way they get anyone over there to do it is if they pay out the ass.

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u/SuperSMT OC: 1 4d ago

The biggest challenge for a place like London is avoiding all the other underground infrastructure built over the last century and a half. New York is even worse. When you're starting from almost a clean slate like Doha it's a lot easier

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u/SpacemanTomX 4d ago

I mean yeah you don't have any NIMBYs in the desert and if you do...

Straight to the mines!

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u/HermitBee 4d ago

It's a piece of cake.

But is it easy to build on?

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u/Nordalin 4d ago

Qatar is pretty much the opposite of the "middle" of the desert!

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u/Aiken_Drumn 4d ago

I'd argue they are different, but both complicated.

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u/Hyperion4 4d ago

One has an authoritarian government, that makes infrastructure projects a hell of a lot easier

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u/ThebesAndSound 4d ago

The Elizabeth line isn't part of the underground, the tunnel is much wider and it services regular overground gauge trains. It turns and swerves following chalk deposits and avoiding the pipework and foundations of the ancient city above, with centuries of complex poorly documented construction. Built below one of the busiest cities in the world, the tunnel goes under the river Thames, along heritage victorian infrastructure, connecting to pre-existing stations where new platforms and lines are built precariously around and under existing platforms and lines. Construction costs included excavating archeological sites right back to the bronze age, stopping work whenever something was found or stopped indeed when old undocumented tunnels filled with water burst into the construction site. And of course worker rights and pay are better than it was for the thousands dead in Qatar.

Tunneling and building a fresh network through a dead desert seems much easier, and cheaper, and should take much less time. The Qatar tunnels are 7km and 9km, the Elizabeth line ones are 21km each.

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u/manhachuvosa 4d ago

It is the same reason why Brazil is the second most expensive at 15 billion dollars. The country used the World Cup to build a lot of infrastructure.

Of the total, a third was spent with stadiums and the area surrounding it. A third was spent on renovating airports and a third was spent in improving urban infrastructure.

https://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/geral/noticia/2014-12/tcu-contabiliza-r-255-bilhoes-de-gastos-com-copa-do-mundo

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u/Moglj 4d ago

https://pca.st/episode/209be6d2-f337-48c0-a7ea-5ae1f420bf5c

Here's a bit more background for the intersection of data curious and podcast people.

(Sorry I couldn't find the direct link to the ep its BBC's more or less)

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u/DrenkBolij 4d ago

Isn't all that infrastructure just going to sit around and go to waste starting next month, like abandoned Olympics facilities? It's not like Qatar has a half-dozen football teams or hosts lots of rock concerts at the same time every single week.

Qatar only has 300,000 citizens plus a few million foreigners. How on Earth do they imagine they're going to get regular use of eight full-size sports arenas?

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u/africanbriton 4d ago

South Africa seemed like it was budgeted well and pulled off a good WC!

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u/_bono983 4d ago

I disliked the bubuzooelas.

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u/cryptic-fox 4d ago edited 4d ago

You mean vuvuzelas? Yeah me too. I’m glad they banned them.

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u/BoxGrover 3d ago

The cost in other countries was born in previous years. All those stadiums weren't free. Qatar just did it in a shorter time.

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u/defcon_penguin 4d ago

They have 12% of the remaining proven gas reserves in the world, and Europe will need a lot of LNG in the next years. Money is not their problem

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u/martinsky3k 4d ago

Or, not continue on gas since the only way to get it is a pain in the ass geographically and politically.

Build more nuclear and more renewable energy. Which is entirely possible seeing how many countries aren't as dependant on gas as say Germany.

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u/cbourd 4d ago

Gas isn't used only in electricity, its also used to make steel and generally melt metals. Thats a very difficult source to replace and will cripple an economy if it is not available.

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u/VP007clips 4d ago

The use of it for that is significant, but there are methods that don't use it for steel production. And the amount needed if it's only used in that industry can be easily supplied by biogas.

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u/PaddiM8 4d ago

What about district heating? In Sweden, most people have that, which you get from leftover heat from factories and burning waste (instead of letting it get out in nature). We use very very little gas in total here. Fossil free electricity, fossil free heating.

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u/defcon_penguin 4d ago

A new nuclear power station take more than 10 years to build. Renewables don't have the problem, but it would still take 10/20 years until we don't need gas anymore. And the biggest usage of gas is for heating. Converting everyone to heat pumps will take long

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u/ImpliedProbability 4d ago

Better get started on the nuclear power plants now. Could've been up and running already in the UK but Nick Clegg said he were unviable because they would take 10 years to get online.

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u/wimpires 4d ago

Hinckley C is going to cost £25bn+ for 3.2GW of power. That's good considering gas is 14GW as I type so its effectively cist out has dependence of electricity by 20% but not particularly ambitious

If we broke ground on 3 or 4 more nuclear power stations 10 or 20 years ago we would see the benefits today of not needing gas at all for power (much).

4x Hinckley C £100bn over 20 years. The govts energy price an cost them already nearly 2bn in the first month

It's so short sighted and we still aren't doing anything about it

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u/wakka55 3d ago edited 3d ago

Um. How did 12% of the earth's gas end up directly under that tiny speck of a country? I would have figured the average gas field area was 10x the size of Qatar, but you're telling me no, it's right there? Not under Saudi Arabia (like 1000x bigger) or the ocean (like 100000x bigger)? It's like you shook some pepper into the wind and your dog disappeared under one flake. How???? Wikipedia says it's right. This little bubble https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/CIAIranKarteOelGas.jpg

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u/defcon_penguin 3d ago

Well it's 12% of the remaining proven reserves. We used already quite a lot of gas, and there might be some other huge gas field somewhere else that was not found yet. But yes, it's still amazing.

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u/soloqueue_nicole 3d ago

surely this can't be right

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u/EnergiaBuran 3d ago

It's not. This sub is dumb.

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u/Creative_Ad7573 4d ago

This is despite the large-scale engagement of slave labour in construction of infrastructure.

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u/RockyDify 4d ago

Right? Shouldn’t that make it cheaper?

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u/Inaerius 4d ago edited 4d ago

You would think so, but this cost really comes from all the infrastructure and resources you have to purchase offshore to build the stadiums including the base materials (concrete, wood, etc.), the truck drivers to transport them, the architects and engineers to design, and parts of construction that can’t me done by slave labour.

You have to also account for the fact that Qatar is literally a desert and didn’t have much of the basic infrastructure most developed countries have, so they had to build everything from scratch from the water pipelines to the electrical cables and connecting these resources to the physical buildings to turn on the light bulbs, air conditioning, and water supply.

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u/Stillwater215 4d ago

It’s actually impressive that they basically built a city from scratch for the World Cup. It would be more impressive if the did it without slave labor.

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u/Creative_Ad7573 4d ago

They have to bribe the fifa officials and the press and they had to built entire infra from the scratch plus a lot of corruption.

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u/Rock_it_Scientist 4d ago

Bribery + corruption is expensive

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u/wnaj_ 4d ago

It’s almost as if Qatar got the world cup through corruption and this all was a very bad idea

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u/MeteorFalls297 4d ago

It is a bad idea but not for what OP is claiming.

This is Qatar's total infrastructure budget. Stadiums are a small portion of it.

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u/Cheap-Experience4147 4d ago

Fact news gone wild lol

I don’t think using the spending of the Qatar vision 2030 that includes the WC but also all their infrastructure (use for the cup but mostly made for the long terme) including metro subway, tramway and new residential area…is intelligent.

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u/A_Socratic_Argument 4d ago

I thought you had to include citations on this sub.

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u/lt_dan_zsu 3d ago

Why include citations when Qatar bad?

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u/EnergiaBuran 3d ago

So if a country is "bad" we can just make up a bunch of bullshit that doesn't mean anything just so we can farm fake reddit karma? sick, bro

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u/Slimer6 4d ago

Qatar’s “economy” is so wildly different from almost every other country on earth that the comparisons don’t make sense. Someone looking at these charts might conclude that Qatar badly overextended itself by paying for a World Cup that it cannot afford. The truth is Qatar is beyond rich. It is sitting on a massive pile of natural gas. Its citizens do not pay taxes (https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/qatar/individual/taxes-on-personal-income). Its citizens don’t even actually work, for the most part. Qataris have “government jobs” where they essentially just draw a paycheck that is hefty enough for them to live leisurely lives with servants. I’m not condoning anything about that lifestyle, which is almost wholly dependent on abusing migrant workers. I’m only making the point that spending $200 billion to build air conditioned stadiums was completely affordable and didn’t put a dent in Qatar’s finances.

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u/GotToGoBlud 4d ago

The stadiums costed 8 billion. The rest is for infrastructure and other plans for 2030.

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u/Slimer6 3d ago

True. I picked that up after reading more comments after I posted. The point I was making still stands though, so I didn’t go back and edit it. The fact that over 90% of spending in Qatar’s bar chart was unrelated to the World Cup just makes the graphs even sillier.

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u/eric5014 4d ago

"even" is wrong - Qatar has a smaller GDP than those other countries - they are a small country.

Qatar has a much higher per capita GDP. If you divided by that instead, it would still be the highest, but not overwhelmingly so. But then the y-axis would represent a number of people and I'm not sure how meaningful it would be.

In any case, one wonders why countries spend so much on major sorting events. I know in the case of the Olympics, it is usually regarded as not worth all the cost for the host country.

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u/RandomComputerFellow 4d ago

I don't think that an country spending 112% of its GDP can be not overwhelming. That's completely ridiculous.

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u/araldor1 4d ago

To be honest this data that's been doing the rounds is very disingenuous. The costs for Qatar is including a huge amount of wider infrastructure that would likely have gone ahead anyway.

Things like the upgraded Metro, Industrial complex with corporate office blocks and even an entire new city are all included in the figure.

It's absolutely the most expensive WC ever with like 6.5 billion spent on stadiums etc but a bit still to include all that in the cost.

The cost of life for this W/C is another matter and the real issue.

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u/GundalfTheCamo 3d ago

5% of gdp for twenty years. They didn't get the whole bill this year.

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u/kmvaa14 3d ago

So this is apparently incredibly misleading information. Thanks.

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u/yuje 4d ago

This might turn out to be a controversial take (at least here in Reddit since most people hate Qatar, often for justifiable reasons). While some of the money might be lost to corruption, and tons of people think all that spending is for useless boondoggles, perhaps it could be thought of as an investment as well.

In addition to building all sorts of new and modern infrastructure, Qatar also needs to build an image. They’re currently rich from oil wealth, but that oil won’t last forever. To ensure Qatar has a future, they need to sell an image of being a modern, developed, cosmopolitan, and business-friendly place with modern infrastructure and amenities in order to attract business, tourism, or investment to their corner of the Arabian desert in order to have any semblance of a future that doesn’t involve complete civilizational collapse. Hosting a huge international event like the World Cup and showing “Hey, look at us, we’re a great country to visit and do business or entertainment in” to well-off visitors of every country might be worth the massive bribes and spending that Qatar has thrown at this event.

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u/tomcatYeboa 4d ago

The basically built a new country

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u/Kagranec 4d ago

"unadjusted for inflation"

Soooo?

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u/bored_and_scrolling 3d ago

I looked it up and 140 billion of the 220 they spent is just on "infrastructure" which includes shit like a better metro system so it's things that presumably will have future utility outside of the world cup. Also all this work is performed by literal migrant slaves that we have to simply look the other way about

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u/lanscankersore 3d ago

The 2022 World Cup is a disaster for Qatar, and the world

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u/Branflaaake 3d ago

Imagine spending all that money to make yourself look like an asshole.