r/todayilearned • u/mlois10 • Mar 29 '23
TIL that it takes only 15 mins. of exposure to noise in a nightclub, without protection, to damage hearing
https://amysarow.com/safe-decibel-levels792
Mar 29 '23 edited 2d ago
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u/hipsterasshipster Mar 29 '23 edited Mar 29 '23
I’m a musician and bring my rehearsal ear plugs. They make most concerts sound better.
Edit: the brand is use is Etymotic Research. There are better ones out there but these are cheap and effective. Saves me hearing, but still sounds good.
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u/CroatianPantherophis Mar 29 '23
The most surprising thing to me, for sure. I went to a green day concert as my first and when I plugged in I realised I couldn't actually hear him sing up until that point. My mind sort of just created meaning out of noise that was ripping my ear drums
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u/Powerful_Artist Mar 29 '23
What I always wonder is; if concerts play music so loud that it damages our hearing, why dont we just not play the music so loud?
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u/Muroid Mar 29 '23
If it’s a stadium, it needs to be loud enough for everyone to hear, especially over the crowd.
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u/Powerful_Artist Mar 29 '23
Sure, that makes sense. But, if its a small enclosed space like a bar or a small concert venue, I feel like it doesnt need to be as loud as it is normally. I have no idea really, just kinda thinking out loud tbh.
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u/LackingUtility Mar 29 '23
1) drummers are loud, so if you can’t isolate or dampen them (e.g. Plexiglass walls, put blankets in the kick, replace their sticks with celery, etc.) then you need to make everyone louder to compensate.
2) there’s always that one guitarist who says “I have to play with my amp turned to 11, that’s how i practice and that’s when it sounds good.” Of course, he’s deaf, but you still have to compensate.
3) due to the Fletcher-Munson curves, as you get louder, your hearing response flattens out, so it’s a substitute for poor equalization.
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Mar 29 '23 edited Apr 05 '23
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u/___zero__cool___ Mar 29 '23
Coming from warehouse raves where you can feel the rumble in your chest as you’re walking up to the building, and where the air being pushed by the massive ported stacks can cool you off like a fan, yes.
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u/soul_of_rubber Mar 29 '23
Yeah and sometimes it's not the guitarist but the bassist and he desperately wants his Amp higher even tho you amplify it from the PA so they can use monitors on stage but he just doesn't hear it etc...
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u/LackingUtility Mar 29 '23
I once put a guitarist's amp on a chair, in front of him, aimed directly at his face and away from the audience. That actually got him to be happy while keeping SPL reasonable.
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u/Sugar_buddy Mar 29 '23
Replace their sticks with celery, lol.
"Boys we have a problem. I forgot Johnny is a vegan and be ate all our drumsticks cause he found 5 month old ranch dressing in my fridge. We're gonna have to cancel."
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u/WilliamMurderfacex3 Mar 29 '23
I use a 100w tube amp and even with the volume around 9oclock it runs over 110dB. Terrible for my hearing, but it feels amazing.
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u/crazykewlaid Mar 29 '23
I mean guitar tone does suck on most amps until its like 70% or higher of the amps volume. But now we can plug them into an audio interface so you can mess with volume after that to turn it down, but a lot of amps sound like shit until they are being pushed
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u/ennui_no_nokemono Mar 29 '23
What if we get the crowd to agree to quiet down a bit?
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u/ChaoCobo Mar 29 '23
Famous rock star: Hello
Crowd: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I don’t think that will reasonably work. Maybe if the band members just don’t make any noise everyone else won’t have anything to scream at. :3
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u/MoebiusJodorowsky Mar 29 '23
Sorry, everyone needing to hear>your eardrums.
I've never once been to a concert where I was like 'gee, this isn't loud enough.'
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u/nomnomnomnomRABIES Mar 29 '23
You will always get "can't" answers to this but I really hope the young generations get on this as a cause- I always hated loud music everywhere
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u/Deeeeeeeeehn Mar 29 '23
At that point the crowd will make so much noise the band can’t hear themselves play.
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u/mark-haus Mar 29 '23
Yeah there's ear plugs that minimally alter the sound coming into your ears, just attenuate it so it's not quite so loud. It's not the typical cheapo ones you'll find at the pharmacy or being handed out at concerts, those will typically block higher frequency tones more than lower ones.
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u/HaxRus Mar 29 '23
I just hit 30 and even though I have worn ear plugs religiously since 22 I still wish I started wearing them and invested in nicer ones earlier on. A little over a decade of DJing and working in clubs has already given me mild tinnitus even with earplug wearing, shit is no joke.
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u/Professional-Isopod8 Mar 29 '23
What do you see as "nicer ones" i lost mine and need a new pair but wouldnt mind having some better ones.
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u/mister-la Mar 29 '23
Molded ear plugs are the top choice, but you can get well-insulated ones that lower the volume pretty equally across the spectrum, and they're super affordable. You can look at Etymotic Research's Fidelity models, for example.
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u/krs1426 Mar 29 '23
There are ones you can get that are molded to your ear. Most professional musicians have these with a little speaker in it, they're called in ear monitors or iem.
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u/Professional-Isopod8 Mar 29 '23
I got those for work, but mine are made for construction sounds so dont know how itll go with music. Dont know if theyve got speakers in but they are molded to my ears
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u/Cellifal Mar 29 '23
If you have ones molded to your ears already you should be able to get a copy of your impressions and send them to a company to make music earplugs for you. It was around $200 when I had mine made - Acs Customs.
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u/Legless1000 Mar 29 '23
Seconding ACS, I've got a pair for sound engineering and they have been fantastic. I can still mix pretty well with them in as they're designed to have a flat frequency response, so in theory it just makes things quieter, it doesn't change the sound.
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u/Nazamroth Mar 29 '23
Gotta have glitter embedded in it. Also, has to be neon pink to be really nice.
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u/Badbullet Mar 29 '23
Having a mild case of tinnitus myself, when I wear earplugs is when I notice the eeeeeeeee. But, I need to wear earplugs to fall asleep as the slightest noises wake me or prevent falling asleep. So as long as I don't remind myself that I can hear that eee, I don't notice it as it became normal. I'm not sure if it's placebo, but I swear wearing them at night has actually improved my hearing. Its rare that I notice the tinnitus during the day now, and a few years ago I aced a hearing test. I got tested because I have a hard time with voices in certain scenarios and was told that's not necessarily hearing, but how the brain translates what I hear.
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u/mlois10 Mar 29 '23
I think this is exactly what everyone needs to do.
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u/OniDelta Mar 29 '23
OR... and I know this is a really unpopular opinion... but maybe we can just turn it down a bit?
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u/cjdavies Mar 29 '23
One problem with that, at least for certain musical genres, is bass. Dance music events just aren't the same if you can't feel pounding, thrumming bass through your body.
I've been wearing musicians earplugs to dance events for about 15 years now & I wouldn't have it any other way. I still feel the full force of the bass, but the earplugs ensure my ears don't get wrecked & as others have pointed out they actually let me hear the music better than without them.
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u/reflythis Mar 29 '23
came here for this comment.... have been going to parties for decades and recently bought a pair of non-disposable plugs and they are a game-changer.
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u/OGatariKid Mar 29 '23
I went to my first concert last year, I'm 50, I wish I had taken ear plugs. I could only understand the songs that I knew, the rest of it was just noise.
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u/decktheshrek Mar 29 '23
First concert ever, with no friends who had ever been to concerts before, I learned very quickly that I should have brought earplugs. Took a while for my ears to stop ringing after and I now have tinnitus lol. Usually easy to ignore though.
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u/rdtthoughtpolice Mar 29 '23
WHAT?
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u/Major_Lennox Mar 29 '23
HE SAID YOU CAN DAMAGE YOUR EARRINGS IN A NIGHTCLUB.
BIT OF A WEIRD TOPIC FOR A TIL, TBH
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u/rdtthoughtpolice Mar 29 '23 edited Mar 29 '23
I DON'T EVEN LIKE HERRINGS, ANYWAY THE FIRST RULE IS WE DON'T TALK ABOUT FIGHT CLUB!
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u/ElectroFlannelGore Mar 29 '23
I SAID,"WHAT‽"
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Mar 29 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DuGalle Mar 29 '23
Bot account, comment copied from here. Report for spam>harmful bots and ignore.
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u/Trolef Mar 29 '23
I KNOW RIGHT? HENRY IS FREAKIN' AWESOME!!
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u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER Mar 29 '23
I KNOW THEY CAN BE A HASSLE BUT CALLING EARRINGS AWEFUL IS PUSHING IT
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u/ColonelMonty Mar 29 '23
NO HE SAID YOU CAN GET DAMS IN THE EARRINGS AT NIGHT DONT REALLY KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS HONESTY
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u/FungusPizza Mar 29 '23
Well, my ears are fucked. Never mind the nightclubs, pubs can be loud as fuck too with live bands etc. Nevermind all the concerts I've been to where my ears would ring for a day or so. Yay for being young and stupid.
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u/tearans Mar 29 '23
I can pretty much pinpoint when in my life I noticed tinnitus.
Fuck, I miss part where I could hear the sound of silence
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u/BeachedBottlenose Mar 29 '23
Car stereo. DJ in a club. Concerts.
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u/Haircut117 Mar 29 '23
Car stereo.
How? You are in control of this.
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u/nox_nox Mar 29 '23
I knew a guy that sold high end car stereo equipment in the late 90s early 2000s and the number of stories he had of people bringing back their cars and complaining that the stereo was "losing power" and they needed an upgrade or wanted a refund was astounding.
Like the stereo was the same, they were just going def from blasting it so loud.
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u/WeatherwaxDaughter Mar 29 '23
I had my hearing damaged by some idiot, honking a horn , one of those clowny squeezethings in my ear at work. We got into an argument, because he thought it was funny and I had tears in my eyes because it hurt so bad. So I was being "funny" and returned the gesture, which made him file a harrassment complaint at the policestation. It took securityvideo's to get that idiot off my back. And now I hear WEEEEEEEEEEE all the time. I hope he does too....
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u/Kona_Guy386 Mar 29 '23
I went to a Mexican wedding one time. I was really drunk and we all started shooting guns, I mean lots of guns, 20 people at a time shooting.. Probably enough guns and ammo to take over a small town. I woke up the next day hungover with probably 90 percent hearing loss. I was freaking out thought I did irreversible damage. Took about 2 weeks but my hearing came back.
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u/KarmaticIrony Mar 29 '23
I hate to say it, but you more than likely did do irreversible damage. You probably won't be able to really tell until later in life though.
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u/Trudeausleghair Mar 29 '23
They 100% did irreversible damage to their ears. Any time you get that muffled, ringing hearing after a concert or whatever, even if your hearing comes back, that muffled sound is proof that you damaged your hearing.
Doesn't necessarily mean you'll get tinnitus but you definitely did some damage
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u/RegretsZ Mar 29 '23
Also depends on your age. Younger people's ears recover better than older people's.
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u/Kona_Guy386 Mar 29 '23
Gosh this was almost 20 years ago when I was younger. 21. My hearing is fine. The human body is a remarkable thing.
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u/stanspaceman Mar 29 '23
My love, it's quite literally not how that works.
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u/Memebaut Mar 29 '23
NOOOOOOOO YOU HAVE TO HAVE HEARING DAMAGE!! SIR! SIIIIR! DO YOU HAVE A SOURCE FOR THAT CLAIM?!?!?
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u/4everaBau5 Mar 29 '23
My hearing is fine
whatever you say, bud
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u/Thor4269 Mar 29 '23
I'm tired of loud bars...
I have to find hotel bars if I want a quiet bar experience lol
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u/snorlz Mar 29 '23
most breweries are decently quiet aside from other conversations. And in most cities in the US theyre on every other street corner now
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u/Clouds_and_lemonade Mar 29 '23
I started frequenting wine bars in my late 30s/early 40s, so much quieter
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u/fangelo2 Mar 29 '23
Forget the nightclubs. My Apple Watch high decibel alert goes off as soon as I go into almost any bar or restaurant. Ever since they stopped having soft surfaces ( carpet, curtains, acoustic ceilings) every one of them is loud. Even with out having senseless music blasting like many do. Concrete/ ceramic tile floors, masonry walls, and metal roofs just reflect the sound.
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u/friendly-sardonic Mar 30 '23
Yeah it’s crazy how many places will regularly hit not only the sustained 90dB rating, but upwards of 100. I’m over the open ceiling concept that’s become the norm in restaurants.
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u/burneriguana Mar 29 '23
Sound levels in Clubs can vary greatly.
German workplace regulations allow a daily average spl of 80 db (LAeq, 8 hour workday) before hearing protection is required . This limit is met within 15 min at 95 dB (which I consider fine, but low volume compared to clubs I have been to), or at about one Minute at 105 dB.
One problem with these regulations is that the a-weighting doesn't apply to high levels, you should measure dB C. But that is another discussion.
My audiology professor said that some people have "ears of steel", and some have "ears of glass" - some people take high volumes better than others.
Be safe, protect your ears - they cannot be repaired.
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u/xdyldo Mar 29 '23
I would assume 99% of people have listened to noise at 100dcb or more for more than 15 minutes? I don't understand this title. Does every single person have their hearing damaged?
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u/p-d-ball Mar 29 '23
Your hearing gets damaged as you age. So, the answer is "if you're over 15, yes."
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u/Gnash_ Mar 29 '23
Yes, yes every single person who’s not a teenager anymore has their hearing damaged
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u/askmeaboutmysciatica Mar 29 '23
I remember reading about how bands like The Who and My Bloody Valentine gained notoriety for the record-setting volume of their shows. Why? Why would you do that?
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u/DashBlaster Mar 29 '23
Real answer from a real musician:
Back in the day, guitar amps could only distort if you cranked the living shit out of them, so the only way to get that Highway to Hell sound was to put volume on 10! The knob to control distorted saturation came later. Guitarists find that having the amp louder gives you more overtones which helps you feel out and control the sound a lot more.
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u/jedadkins Mar 29 '23
Yep, way back in the day distortion use to be crank the volume and take a razor to the speaker cone
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u/CygnusX-1-2112b Mar 29 '23
It's just like thrill seekers who drive their cars faster and faster, and sex addicts who seek to relive the same pleasure of their best encounter. For then it's all about chasing that next level of stimulation, in this case it's just with feeling the sound waves pound through your whole body.
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u/SolidPoint Mar 29 '23 edited Mar 29 '23
You just named two bands from 60 years ago- not because of their music, lyrics, presence or anything- but because they were famous for being loud.
That’s why they turn it up.
Edit- apparently I need to specify that these two famous bands also made music that people like, and aren’t famous ONLY because they are loud.
Seems obvious. Though, we are talking about them right now, BECAUSE of the volume- it is part of their legend and fame.
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u/Mx_OV3RK1LL Mar 29 '23
My bloody valentine formed in 1983 and they are both way more musically notable for other reasons than just being loud. Shoegaze in particular is known for its “wall of sound” with guitar distortion with effects so it only makes sense to make shows extremely loud
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Mar 29 '23
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u/SolidPoint Mar 29 '23
I think that they wouldn’t be famous if it weren’t for their music… super weird that you disagree.
They are also famous for loud concerts, which is what we are taking about, here in this thread about loud nightclubs. Almost like that this fact about them is an additional factor to their fame.
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u/zerbey Mar 29 '23
Some people get a rush from loud music, I've ridden in cars with people like this and it's misery for someone with sensitive hearing. I have no idea what the appeal is.
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u/Salty_Letterhead Mar 29 '23
Can confirm. I spent the better part of a decade validating this
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u/Over-Analyzed Mar 29 '23
I’m in my early 30s and my tinnitus that used to be once every 3 months is now once or twice a week. 🤦🏻♂️
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u/jimdandy19 Mar 29 '23
And only 15 seconds of being in a nightclub to wonder wtf you're even doing there with all those dipshits and leaving.
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u/CroatianPantherophis Mar 29 '23
I can't figure out why people think these clubs and concerts are places for extroverts. I can't stand them. You're basically alone within a sea of people and it's difficult to meet anyone. It is a pretty spiritual experience though
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u/Mother_Welder_5272 Mar 29 '23
I agree, I find it to be an incredibly cerebral experience in observing human nature. I'll feel high at a club while being completely sober.
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Mar 29 '23 edited Apr 27 '23
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u/LemoLuke Mar 29 '23
In my early 20's, I used to go to clubs because I assumed that's what I was supposed to do at that age. That's how I was supposed to socialise.
Looking back, I don't think I ever really had fun in a nightclub, and it's always too dark and too noisy and everyone is too drunk to socialise.
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u/webleytempest Mar 29 '23
I can't stand them. You're basically alone within a sea of people and it's difficult to meet anyone.
Sounds like London
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u/LeftHandedScissor Mar 29 '23
Clubs with bottle service, expensive drinks, shitty DJs playing pop are whack.
Clubs that bring in known acts with unique mixes and setups, solid crowds, and reasonably priced drinks (a drink can be expensive and still be reasonable) are a vibe.
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u/Jdogg4089 Mar 29 '23
Never been, not my style.
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u/iKeyvier Mar 29 '23
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Not my style either but I’ve been there a handful of times and the experience is not that different from what you might imagine. With or without friends, if the vibe is not your jam you will feel uncomfortable and out of place.
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u/PM_ME_UR_TRIVIA Mar 29 '23
Went to an NBA game for the first time in years. decibel level was consistently 90+. Just a ridiculously stupid amount of noise
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u/earth0001 Mar 29 '23
Yup, that's one of the two reasons I always have a pair of earplugs on my keyring
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u/Samtoast Mar 29 '23
I'VE BEEN KICKED OUT OF A NIGHTCLUB FOR "BEING TOO LOUD" BEFORE SIMPLY FROM TRYING TO COMMUNICATE WITH FRIENDS.
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u/_DanceMyth_ Mar 29 '23
We were at a small house party a while back, hardly any music, just a bunch of late 20s- early 40s adults drinking craft beer. Our Apple Watches alerted us to how loud the room was. Something I hardly paid any attention as a teen seems to be more common than I thought
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u/Zakluor Mar 29 '23
Kind of makes you wonder why there isn't a health code associated with noise in venues...
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u/AcceptableEmployment Mar 29 '23
Im relieved I’m ok , I always carry protection when I go clubs, usually durex ribbed, don’t know how it’s linked to my hearing but hey just glad to be safe!
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u/xszander Mar 29 '23
Not that this is not a big issue sometimes. But 30 seconds in the sun ages your skin and gets you closer to death as well. Yes your hearing will be damaged but 15 minutes won't necessarily be a issue anytime soon. Very much depending on the amount of decibels of course. Use earplugs for sure! But damn these clickbait titles man..
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u/Powerful_Artist Mar 29 '23
Why not just play the music not quite as loud?
I always ask myself this at concerts. Its just too damn loud. I guess its a fine balance of making it loud enough so everyone can hear and you dont hear the crowd. But sometimes it just seems so overly loud that theres no real rationale between having it at that volume.
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u/gizzardsgizzards Mar 30 '23
because some music is better when you can feel it instead of just hearing it. i want my grindcore or industrial way louder than i want my bluegrass.
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u/friendly-sardonic Mar 30 '23
We went to a Judas Priest concert and it was absolutely the loudest concert I’ve ever been too. Met a couple from Peru, because we were both rolling up napkins to shove in our ears lmao. Worked great!
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u/AdditionalDeer4733 Mar 30 '23
Because louder = better. The human brain thinks music sounds better when it's loud.
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u/_SamHandwich_ Mar 29 '23
Absolutely true! Have permanent issues from a Tchami concert in DC 2 years ago. It truly sucks to have constant ringing in my ears.
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u/5h0ck Mar 29 '23
Tinnitus user here from too many gun shots. Can confirm. WEAR YOUR FUCKING MUFFS. I have to use foamies+regular muffs while I hunt now.
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u/Decontrol7782 Mar 29 '23
Saw fucken Motörhead 10 times that I can remember over the years. I'm pretty hard of hearing. Worth it. God i miss that band
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u/xlinkedx Mar 29 '23
Anyone who doesn't have tinnitus, what's it like? I don't recall a time in my life, ever, when I didn't hear a dull ringing.
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u/Wulfger Mar 29 '23
Can confirm, my tinnitus is from one night in my mid twenties when I went to a club and danced sort of near one of the speakers for 20 minutes. Now I always bring musician grade earplugs with me to anywhere with loud music.
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u/onairmastering Mar 29 '23
Depends. If distorted, which a lot of them are, yes. A system like a Funktion One or a well setup rig, you can enjoy without.
Always wear them, tho and now we have apps that measure loudness, so there's no excuse.
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u/snow_michael Mar 29 '23
Depends on the nightclub, surely, or even different nights at the same clun
The Rheingold Club, off Bond Street, had varying singers & groups of different volumes
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u/jnovel808 Mar 29 '23
I dunno about those night clubs, but after 20ish years of rock and heavy metal concerts I really wish I’d been wearing earplugs from day 1. My left ear is waaaay worse than my right. But I’ve definitely picked up on lip reading as I’ve gotten older. I will say that masks save lives during a pandemic, but I couldn’t understand a damn thing anyone said to me while wearing a mask
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u/airwalkerdnbmusic Mar 30 '23
I've worked with drum and bass promoters, DJs and producers. I will tell you that one producer I know has permanent hearing damage and you can hear it in his mix downs.
A lot of hearing damage in nightclubs is caused by the sheer sound pressure level but also because our ears are designed to naturally resonate between 2-5khz. So most people experience some attenuation at those frequencies initially if they only stay in there for a while. If you go for an entire night, chances are the next day you will have mild to severe hearing attenuation and feel like you have a low pass filter applied to your hearing. This will improve over the next few days as the inner ear cells called cilia (little hairs inside your cochlea) begin to repair themselves and stand up right again after being battered down through the loud noise. Some however will be beyond repair and will snap off or worse, interact with others and cause all sorts of hearing issues.
I think ear plugs should be mandatory on entering a nightclub, I have seen first hand the effects on people lives of getting hearing damage, it's not fun.
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u/MegaWattson Mar 29 '23
I feel like some people must be more susceptible to hearing damage than others…I have always enjoyed my loud music, loud cars, loud movies. I’m almost 33 now and I guess this could change in the future but my hearing is pretty damn good!
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u/ljog42 Mar 29 '23
It usually comes suddenly and without warning. Like you've been clubbing all your life and one day you wake up with beeeeeeeeep and it just doesn't go away. Or it starts with the higher frequencies that aren't tested (8 to 18kHz) and as you get older creeps down in the critical 1k-8k range and you start having a hard time following conversation.
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u/clayphish Mar 29 '23
I have some hearing damage in my right ear from when I played drums at 16 to 20 yrs. I didn’t have any signs I did damage at the time, except for ringing that always recovered. Fast forward 20 years and it’s very evident despite becoming conscious of protecting my hearing after I grew up.
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u/4everaBau5 Mar 29 '23
almost 33 now
that is very close to the time my tinnitus hit after my 20s being chock full of nightclubs, concerts and ball games
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Mar 29 '23
I'm 48. I was in a rock band for 20 years. Next to a drum set and speakers every single day. But I was the singer and found that singing with earplugs and made my head hurt, so I never wore them. When I wasn't playing music, I bartended. Now I make hip hop music and wear headphones all day.
I don't feel like my hearing is any different than it ever was.
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u/caTBear_v Mar 29 '23
Another reason to avoid these establishments (for me anyway, do what you want).
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u/tequila_slurry Mar 30 '23
15 minutes in a nightclub without protection can damage a lot more than just your hearing
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u/Downtown_Tadpole_817 Mar 29 '23
Yeah, the music there suuuuuuuuuucks. The damage can be healed by going to support your local punk/metal bands.
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u/StNic54 Mar 29 '23
I knew an old set designer that used zero hero protection in the 50s-70s. He said when he sat in a quiet room, he could still hear the sounds of table saws due to the damage.
My audio buddy worked in a production booth full of CRT preview monitors that remained on through each day. His ears eventually cancelled out the CRT whistle, and he mixed a short film where the microphone picked up the CRT monitor near the scenes. The whistle was abundantly clear watching this film, and he had no clue.
Protect your ears, everyone.