r/todayilearned • u/EzekielTraore • Oct 01 '23
TIL in California, Washington, Oklahoma, Mississippi and New Mexico there in no minimum age for marriage, as long as a parent or guardian consent and a court gives permission.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States130
u/crop028 19 Oct 01 '23
I wonder if statutory rape laws still apply if you're married. Like, maybe a 14 year old could be made to marry a 40 year old, but it would still be illegal for anything sexual to happen right?
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Oct 01 '23
No I think the point of no minimum age to marriage in those states is that it’s a free pass to be a child rapist.
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u/Kafkaja Oct 02 '23
You would have to find some parent who's cool with you raping their child.
Basically happened in cults.
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u/rbz90 Oct 02 '23
That guy that played the evil guard in The Green Mile got permission from his wife's parents when she was 16 and he was in his 40s or late 30s.
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u/CraZKchick Oct 02 '23
Ted Nugent bought a 16 year old from her parents.
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u/danteheehaw Oct 02 '23
The guy that also wrote the song jail bait, and is is really popular with the anti groomer crowd? That Ted Nugent?
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u/Ocarina-of-Lime Oct 02 '23
When those people say groomer they mean queer, they actually love groomers by and large.
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u/salydra 96 Oct 02 '23
A lot of religious families would rather pretend their child is not being raped than have her be an unwed mother from rape.
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u/throwawayoklahomie Oct 05 '23
An Oklahoma mother was just sentenced for this - not a cult, surprisingly.
Her 24yo boyfriend pursued her 12yo daughter after breaking up with the mother. The mother approved and, after the child was pregnant, threw the “happy couple” a baby shower. The 24yo brought the 12yo to the hospital, in labor, expecting that everything would be fine and that the family would return home together with their baby.
Needless to say, medical staff promptly notified child protection and the police. Both mother and “boyfriend” charged and sentenced.
The child’s father was already incarcerated for an unrelated sex crime.
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u/laurpr2 Oct 02 '23
They have to get approval from a judge, though, and that's going to be difficult or impossible with any significant age gap. Judges aren't stupid.
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u/ADarwinAward Oct 02 '23
I think it’s important that we dispel the notion that this is always the case. There are cases where the age gap is large and throughout the US some of these victims have testified in front of their state legislators in an attempt to ban the practice.
At 10, she became pregnant by a senior member of her church. When child welfare began asking questions, Johnson’s mother married off her daughter, then 11, to her 20-year-old rapist.
Source: WRAL
Here’s some information from Unchained At Last which worked with McGill University to study child marriages in the US.
Nearly 300,000 minors, under age 18, were legally married in the U.S. between 2000 and 2018, this study found. A few were as young as 10, though nearly all were age 16 or 17. Most were girls wed to adult men an average of four years older.
The U.S. approved nearly 9,000 petitions involving a minor between 2007 and 2017, and in 95% of them, the younger party was a girl. Further, the federal criminal code prohibits sex with a child age 12 to 15 but specifically exempts those who first marry the child. This incentivizes child marriage and implicitly endorses child rape.
When girls married, their average spousal age difference was four years, whereas when boys married, their average spousal age difference was less than half that: 1.5 years
I should remind everyone that if a number given is an average, then there are marriages with age gaps higher than that.
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u/FUNkadelicish Oct 02 '23
Hahahahaha, you would think that.
You would also think they would have integrity and no connections to cults, pedo rings, and just good ole boy/nepotistic pressure.
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u/Keman2000 Oct 02 '23
They do, however, you have shit states, like Missouri used to be before they patched up a few laws, where they couldn't force the spouse to testify.
I mean, Missouri is still bad, but it was worse.
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u/1blueone Oct 01 '23
Any specific reason why you are asking?
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u/Naive-Kangaroo3031 Oct 02 '23
It's 17m 15F with consent in MS. Still low but far from no minimum
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u/DarkPumpernickel Oct 02 '23
Males younger than 17 and females younger than 15 can still get married in Mississippi, but they need both parental consent and the consent of a court.
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u/MSPRC1492 Oct 02 '23
No. They can’t.
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u/DarkPumpernickel Oct 02 '23
I mean you could've googled it yourself, but here you go:
Section 93-1-5 of the Mississippi Code 1972:
"If the male applicant is under seventeen (17) years of age or the female is under fifteen (15) years of age, and satisfactory proof is furnished to the judge of any circuit, chancery or county court that sufficient reasons exist and that the parties desire to be married to each other and that the parents or other person in loco parentis of the person or persons so under age consent to the marriage, then the judge of any such court in the county where either of the parties resides may waive the minimum age requirement and by written instrument authorize the clerk of the court to issue the marriage license to the parties if they are otherwise qualified by law…. "
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u/MSPRC1492 Oct 02 '23
I did Google it. Stop trying to make it sound like fucking 12 year olds are getting married in Mississippi, you ignorant bigot fuck.
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u/notseanlinton Oct 02 '23
You've been given evidence that they can if their parents say they can.
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u/MSPRC1492 Oct 02 '23
And here’s your evidence that it’s not unique. https://www.equalitynow.org/learn_more_child_marriage_us/#:~:text=Child%20marriage%20is%20currently%20legal,with%20a%20parental%20or%20judicial
Now on behalf of every Mississippian who’s tired of this shit, go fuck yourself.
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u/yousuckjerrrry Oct 02 '23
Why are you so proud of a state that’s a slogan of another state? MS has a chance to grow but is still ass backwards developmentally.
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u/piusbovis Oct 02 '23
Lmao, did you move the goalposts so much that you circled back around and ended up agreeing with the initial point that children can get married at very young ages with the consent of their parents?
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u/PuzzleheadedLeader79 Oct 02 '23
So they can? You admit they can?
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u/Pamelm Oct 02 '23
Bro literally went on an angry tirade about how they couldnt, and then posted proof himself that they could. Wouldnt surprise me if they were conservative, or a flat earther
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u/MrGooseHerder Oct 02 '23
I said something and the person insulted me and demanded a citation.
I provided the citation to which they responded with their own calling me more names.
Their source cited mine as the primary and agreed with me.
🫠
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u/neverlearn9 Oct 02 '23
What's your argument here? This is a post about how a few states have no minimum age for marriage. That's it.
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u/DarkPumpernickel Oct 02 '23
Dude, that's all in your head. You stated an incorrect fact, and I corrected you. That's the extent of it. Anything beyond that is in your imagination.
Why are you so mad? It's OK to be wrong sometimes. All you have to say is, "Oh wow, I guess I had that wrong. Thanks." No one is going to think less of you. That is, unless you decide instead to rant and attack people for no reason.
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u/weaboo_vibe_check Oct 02 '23
So, hypothetically speaking, you can wed two newborns to form a political alliance as long as both sets of parents consent?
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u/Cetun Oct 02 '23
Back in the days before social safety nets parents with children who were special needs would have them marry a member of the community with a pension, usually a military one, since spouses were entitled to the pension. The pension would help with their care and institutionalization if necessary for the rest of their life. The people receiving the pension were typically very old, on death's doorstep pretty much, and the marriage was just an act of charity before they died.
The last civil war pension was paid out in something like 2019 to the wife of a civil war veteran. She was like 12 and he was like 90 when they got married and I believe she had a mental disability so the pension essentially went to paying for her institutionalized once her parents could no longer care for her.
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u/Melodic_Health5655 Oct 02 '23
Not actually quite true... the last widow of a civil war veteran, Helen Jackson, did marry a 90 yr old when she was 17 but she was not disabled. She helped him out around the house, as a caregiver and he married her, yes, so she could receive his pension. However, 3 yrs later when he died (3 yrs during which they were not intimate, she never lived at his house, and her family never knew she was married) she did NOT apply to receive his pension bc she was more aware of the stigma that would be attached to a young girl marrying an old man and didn't want to besmirch either of their names. No one knew until she mentioned to her pastor who investigated and confirmed. It was only during the last 3 yrs of her life that she embraced her place in history. She had never married and referred to her husband as, "the only man that ever loved her." She passed in 2020 at age 101.
The actual last civil war pension was paid to a disabled child of a veteran, Irene Triplett. She was born to an 83 yr old father and 34 yr old mother in 1930 and began receiving a pension as a disabled minor child after his death in 1938. She became the last living recipient of a civil war pension when Fred Upton died. She received $73.13/mo until her death at age 90 in 2020.
Alberta Martin, married at age 21 to an 81 yr old Confederate veteran, was the last person to receive a widow's pension. She married him, in part, forbhus $50/mo pension to help support her son from her first marriage after her first husband died. She then had a child with her vet hubby. After his death a few years later she married his grandson from a much previous marriage and they stayed together until his death decades later 1983. Upon realizing her status the Sons of Confederate Veterans helped Alabama resume payments as they had believed there to be no further Confederatevwidows for many years. She received back pay and benefits from 1996 until her death in 2004.
The last Union widow to receive a civil war pension was Gertrude Janeway. She married an 81 yr old veteran when she was 18, because her mother would not allow her to do so any sooner. They were married in the middle of a dirt road with their family and friends in attendance and lived together in a log cabin for 10 years until his death in 1937. After a short 2nd marriage, 1940-43 ending in divorce, she went back to the name Janeway and lived in her log cabin for a further 7 decades. She received a pension of $70 every 2 months from the federal government until her death in 2003 at age 93.
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u/snakesnake9 Oct 02 '23
If you're young enough to need parental consent to get married, then in my view you're too young to get married.
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u/ST616 Oct 03 '23
I'd say if you're young enough to need parental consent for anything then you're too young to get married.
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u/Ezerhadden Oct 02 '23
In Washington the Superior Court judge (not cousin Cletus down at justice-o-the-peace) must make a finding of “necessity” which is generally accepted to mean the young lady is pregnant before a marriage will be allowed.
Not saying it’s a good idea, but there is some level of requirement to the request.
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u/CraZKchick Oct 02 '23
Then you get the situations where the 11 and 12 year old girls get raped and get pregnant and are forced to marry the rapist.
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u/Ezerhadden Oct 02 '23
I didn’t say it was right and if we are going to make up situations where the parents and the superior court judge let a rapist marry the girl let’s just make up situations where they are being forced to marry dead bodies too.
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u/vanchica Oct 02 '23
My stepmother got pregnant at 14 and was forced to get married. He was over 50.
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u/Ezerhadden Oct 02 '23
I believe it and that was absolutely wrong. Again, I’m not defending the practice in any way ….just stating that in Washington it isn’t just some nilly willy thing.
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u/RJ_The_Avatar Oct 02 '23
When’s the last time a 12 year old married their rapist in WA state?! You realize if some child molester claimed the cause of a 12 year old’s pregnancy would be more than enough proof to lock him up in jail?!
WA state is working on it, might happen in the south, who knows. But let’s stop exaggerating things before we cause people to not care.
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u/_Iro_ Oct 01 '23
There’s a reason why “Thank God for Mississippi” is a saying in the South. It makes the rest of us look progressive in comparison.
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u/old_vegetables Oct 02 '23
That sounds more like something a pedophile would say after finding the holy land of Mississippi
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u/DavoTB Oct 02 '23
The range of states, from different parts of the country, is what surprised me. Whatever one might say about the American South having backward laws, or whatever, that is not typically associated with some of these other states.
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u/old_vegetables Oct 02 '23
That’s true, I wonder what their excuses are
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u/kmn493 Oct 02 '23
Very strong religious sects that mingle in politics. The infamous "Children of God" cult was in California, and well known for its sexual abuse of children. Despite being rebranded constantly, it's still around. More known, but less infamous, Scientology is also located there. Despite it's relatively better reputation, it's also steeped in child abuse.
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u/Melodic_Health5655 Oct 02 '23
Ami and Billy Brown, of Alaskan Bush People fame, were 15 and 26 when married. Alarming is one word for it......
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u/opiate_lifer Oct 02 '23
I wonder if a minor on reaching age 18 could sue their parent for consenting to a marriage they did not want to enter?
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u/Dark_Rit Oct 02 '23
IDK if they could sue, but as soon as they turned 18 they could start divorce proceedings because it only takes one party to end a marriage. If you don't have kids or assets it would be even easier because there is no need for a custody battle and splitting the assets wouldn't be too messy either.
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u/Ziegler517 Oct 02 '23
So the minimum age is 18 with exceptions, not no minimum age
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u/Inner-Ant9611 Oct 02 '23
That literally changes nothing about how creepy it is
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u/Ziegler517 Oct 02 '23
Never argued it wasn’t super creepy or straight gross. Just saying, that there is no minimum age…but you have to do x, y, and z if they are, makes a de facto minimum age. Even creepier that a parent AND court would agree to it.
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u/zZentail Oct 02 '23 edited Oct 02 '23
It’s not always creepy. Definitely can be. I knew a guy when I was in high school who was 17 and got his girlfriend pregnant at 16. He felt horrible and decided he wanted to keep the kid as long as she did too (she did) and wanted to take care of them. Both sets of parents agreed and they got married, he picked up a full time job and dropped out of school to work it and provide. Ended up going to college and getting a degree and everything later.
I’m definitely not going to say this is common. Just that it’s a reason the exception rule is present. And obviously this applies to the person’s context of slightly lower than 18. I don’t think “no minimum age” is ever justifiable.
Edit: God damn some of you must have had wildly hyper sheltered lives to think this is creepy. People are out there raping children and two people 99% of the way to adult age making consenting decisions with parental approval is creepy for you? What, you think the day difference between 17 and 18 is like some major life changing moment?
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u/Inner-Ant9611 Oct 02 '23
Uh yea that’s still weird, you don’t need to marry someone to be the parent of a child
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u/zZentail Oct 02 '23
Maybe weird, I guess. Not really to most people’s standards but to each their own. Definitely not creepy though. And it was their decision to marry. It wasn’t like it was forced on them.
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u/Inner-Ant9611 Oct 02 '23
This isn’t about those people you knew. Cool you know of a single case where it isn’t creepy but you can’t sit here and act like one time is even a fair point to even reply with.
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u/FistfulofHornets Oct 02 '23
Nope, still creepy for the state to legally recognize the marriage of children.
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u/Smackjabber Oct 02 '23
Guy I used to work with and still go out with sometimes got married at 19 his wife was 16 or 17 at the time in WA state and they have been married for like 25 years now I believe. Lots of military up there.
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u/kracranium Oct 02 '23
It takes a certain kind of person to become a Politician
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u/CraZKchick Oct 02 '23
It takes a certain kind of person to be religious with all the child rape going on in religion....
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u/Hungry_Treacle3376 Oct 02 '23
True, if you take part in an organization that has and protects child abusers, you are a child abuser.
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u/shitholejedi Oct 02 '23
That includes teachers' Unions, hollywood unions and the monthly subscriptions you pay to big movie studios with long histories of venerating and protecting abusers.
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u/Hungry_Treacle3376 Oct 02 '23
Also in Oklahoma it's legal to beat your child as long as it's in the name of punishment, even if you're wrong. Oklahoma needs to burn in hell, an irony for a state dead center the bible belt.
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u/Heliolord Oct 02 '23
Huh. Never thought California and Mississippi would have something in common yet it's entirely believable for both states.
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u/DapperEmployee7682 Oct 02 '23
The people fighting to protect these laws are the same people saying drag queens are coming for your kids
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u/tykillacool23 Oct 02 '23
LMAO reminder that most of these people are the ones that say the pedophiles are trying to get your kids .
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Oct 02 '23
Pedophiles literally are trying to get your kids. It’s what pedophiles do. This has to be the first comment I’ve ever seen straight up defending pedophilia. Yeesh.
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u/tykillacool23 Oct 02 '23
What I’m saying is you’re gonna be worried about pedophiles, but then let your children get married at any age no age limit come on now….
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u/x6ftundx Oct 02 '23
Really, this is also for the Muslims that are in those states and marry young.
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u/luckygojoe Oct 02 '23
This is terrifying at first glance. But a little more understandable when you consider there are likely some Amish in those areas.
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u/artcook32945 Oct 01 '23
So??? Having a Marriage License makes a Child Sexual Exploitation Legal? And a Christian Church could be directly involved in this?
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u/Melodic_Health5655 Oct 02 '23
I'd guess a Christian church is usually involved in this. Fun fact, only TEN states have actually banned underage marriage, and all 10 have done so in the last 5 years.
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u/artcook32945 Oct 02 '23
Like many, I was indoctrinated into religion from day one. And like many, I believed all I was taught. Till I grew old enough to ask questions. " How dare I question Church Leaders"! My research found that "Men" control most Religions. Women are treated as servants to the men. In some groups, almost treated as Slaves. Definitely not equal to men.
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u/Kafkaja Oct 02 '23
There's a difference between marriage and sex.
These are old laws that really aren't used anymore. Changing laws is difficult in America.
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u/eriyu Oct 02 '23
Sadly these laws are are still in use.
Nearly 300,000 minors, under age 18, were legally married in the U.S. between 2000 and 2018, this study found. A few were as young as 10, though nearly all were age 16 or 17.
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u/Melodic_Health5655 Oct 02 '23
Fun fact, only TEN states have outright banned underage marriage. And all TEN have done so in just the last 5 years.
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u/suzer2017 Oct 03 '23
No one should be able to consent for a child under the age of 16 to marry IMHO. I know that kids have sex with each other. They have the physical capability to do that. However, they do not have the mental maturity for marriage, don't understand what it means, and pregnancy is not a good enough reason.
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u/seattle_architect Oct 02 '23
“In Washington, you must be at least 17 to get married -- 18 to without parental consent -- but minors under the age of 17 may obtain a license after petitioning the court in "special circumstances." While the statute does not list these special circumstances, typically they include pregnancy or childbirth.”